It's a fact iOS devices can't even graph Wi-Fi signal strength over time

[harry newton]

While iOS apologists ignore facts - it's a fact that iOS devices can't even
graph Wi-Fi signal strength over time:
<http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/10/10/wifi1.jpg>

It's a fact that iOS devices are so functionally non-capable that
non-jailbroken iOS mobile devices can't even graph the real-time Wi-Fi
signal strength of just the local access point they're connected to as they
walk around the home, office, or hotel.
<http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/10/10/wifi2.jpg>

Not only can't iOS devices graph real-time WiFi signal strength for a
*single* connected WiFi access point, iOS devices can't even graph all
available access points' signal strength!
<http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/10/10/wifi3.jpg>

And yet, iOS apologists will swear that iOS has such functionality.

These clueless iOS apologists are so easily fooled by Marketing gimmicks,
it's actually kind of sad to read what they write as they apologize for
iOS' faults.

It's even sadder that iOS apologists don't even realize that even the
latest iOS is functionally incapable of doing the simplest things - such as
what is shown above using Android freeware on a five-year old mobile phone.

--
iOS: It's just sad how clueless & misinformed iOS apologists actually are.

[Wilf]

I'm not an iOS apologist. I use iOS but would use anything I found
useful. But that aside, as a more or less lay user, why would I care
whether the functionality you mention is available, or not?

Wilf

[NY]

"Wilf" <wi...@replyto.newsgroup> wrote in message
news:ori0i6$10d5$1...@gioia.aioe.org...

> On 10/10/2017 8:50 am, harry newton wrote:
>> It's a fact that iOS devices are so functionally non-capable that
>> non-jailbroken iOS mobile devices can't even graph the real-time Wi-Fi
>> signal strength of just the local access point they're connected to as
>> they
>> walk around the home, office, or hotel.

> I'm not an iOS apologist. I use iOS but would use anything I found
> useful. But that aside, as a more or less lay user, why would I care
> whether the functionality you mention is available, or not?

If you want to check how signal strength varies from one part of your house
to another, to look for dead zones which need repeaters, then you need to
see the signal strength as a function time - or at least as a function of
your position as you move around the house, without having to repeatedly
press a "re-scan" button or re-start a scanning process.

Coming from a Windows background, there are various features that are not
available on Android and Apple devices because of security lock-downs.

For me, the one that I find frustrating (this is for Android) is the fact
that there isn't (AFAIK) an SMB client which can access a shared Windows
folder \\server\sharename\folder and the files within it as if it were an
additional memory card in the phone, able to read, write and create files in
that shared folder - in the same way that in Windows you could associate
drive S with a shared folder using a command such as "net use s:
\\server\sharename" or the Windows Explorer equivalent of this. OK, there
are file *transfer* SMB clients, which can copy a file from the share to a
local memory card, but file transfer isn't as convenient as file access -
you have to copy the file to your local storage, modify it and then write it
back to the share again.

The reason that this is not possible is apparently security built into the
operating system, rather than just that no-one has though to write an app to
do it.

In the same way, it sounds as if real-time wifi signal strength monitoring
has been blocked by iOS.

[Lewis]

In message <ori0i6$10d5$1...@gioia.aioe.org> Wilf <wi...@replyto.newsgroup> wrote:
> I'm not an iOS apologist. I use iOS but would use anything I found
> useful. But that aside, as a more or less lay user, why would I care
> whether the functionality you mention is available, or not?

This is what the idiot troll does. He finds a very narrow thing that he
can't figure out how to do on iOS and then claims it is a major feature
that iOS cannot do.

Not only is he an idiot and a liar, but he's also shockingly
incompetent.

<https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/wi-fi-sweetspots/id855457383?mt=8>
Observe how Wi-Fi connection speed fluctuates over time, and locate the
fastest and slowest Wi-Fi spots in your room! Discover the perfect spot
for your wireless router, access point, or wireless gaming console by
using Wi-Fi SweetSpots! Available on iPhone with a simple, easy-to-use
design.

I've never used it, but it took nearly a second to find it and it sounds
like it should do the job.

--
"A musicologist is a man who can read music but can't hear it." - Sir
Thomas Beecham (1879 - 1961)

[nospam]

In article <slrnotpv0o....@snow.local>, Lewis

<g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> In message <ori0i6$10d5$1...@gioia.aioe.org> Wilf <wi...@replyto.newsgroup> wrote:
> > I'm not an iOS apologist. I use iOS but would use anything I found
> > useful. But that aside, as a more or less lay user, why would I care
> > whether the functionality you mention is available, or not?
>
> This is what the idiot troll does. He finds a very narrow thing that he
> can't figure out how to do on iOS and then claims it is a major feature
> that iOS cannot do.

yep.

he 'gives up' and then blames apple for prohibiting something he can't
figure out how to do, even after people explain exactly how to do it,
with links to any necessary apps.

> Not only is he an idiot and a liar, but he's also shockingly
> incompetent.

yep.

[harry newton]

He who is NY said on Tue, 10 Oct 2017 11:20:26 +0100:

>> I'm not an iOS apologist. I use iOS but would use anything I found
>> useful. But that aside, as a more or less lay user, why would I care
>> whether the functionality you mention is available, or not?
>
> If you want to check how signal strength varies from one part of your house
> to another, to look for dead zones which need repeaters, then you need to
> see the signal strength as a function time - or at least as a function of
> your position as you move around the house, without having to repeatedly
> press a "re-scan" button or re-start a scanning process.

NY is quite correct that in explaining to Wilf the ability to graphically
visualize critical factual information about the nearby WiFi access points
in your {home, hotel, office, mall, airport, etc.} is very useful for
knowledeable people who want to know actual current (and constantly
changing) aggregate signal-strength & BSSID facts about their local WiFi
environment.

I track similar facts for both my home T-Mobile cellular tower and for my
T-Mobile cellular repeater where it's strange that Apple won't let its iOS
users "see" the kind of factual information you need to know to make good
decisions regarding your local cellular network also.

> Coming from a Windows background, there are various features that are not
> available on Android and Apple devices because of security lock-downs.

Again, NY is quire correct in explaining to Wilf that, for some reason,
Apple drastically limits the functionality of iOS apps such that the iOS
user is deprived of actual facts when they make certain technical
decisions.

Bear in mind that Apple hardware is stellar, and easily in the top ten of
hardware of all devices out there at any one point in time; so we know it's
not the hardware that limits the functionality of iOS devices.

The mystery to me is why Apple would so severely limit the actual facts
that the iOS user can "see" in their own WiFi and cellular environments.

> For me, the one that I find frustrating (this is for Android) is the fact
> that there isn't (AFAIK) an SMB client which can access a shared Windows
> folder \\server\sharename\folder and the files within it as if it were an
> additional memory card in the phone, able to read, write and create files in
> that shared folder - in the same way that in Windows you could associate
> drive S with a shared folder using a command such as "net use s:
> \\server\sharename" or the Windows Explorer equivalent of this. OK, there
> are file *transfer* SMB clients, which can copy a file from the share to a
> local memory card, but file transfer isn't as convenient as file access -
> you have to copy the file to your local storage, modify it and then write it
> back to the share again.

Maybe I can help advise you (look at this screenshot I made just for you):
<http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/10/10/filesystem.jpg>

This is off topic, but I "mount" all the Android phones on the local LAN
over Wi-Fi onto Windows, either as their own drive letter or more often as
a "network location" such that I can easily copy anything to or from any
Android phone on the local LAN to or from Windows using nothing on Windows
other than the standard native file explorer.

My hosts file is 30,000 lines long which I've maintained for decades
(starting from the MVP Hosts File), and which is the same hosts file on
*all* the Android, Windows, and Linux machines connected onto the local
LAN.

To show you how I easily copy from any platform onto or from Android using
the native file explorers on each platform, here's a screenshot, made for
you just now, of the native Windows file explorer copying the Windows HOSTS
file over to the Android HOSTS file, and vice versa (as just one example)
over WiFi on the LAN.
<http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/10/10/hosts8407d.jpg>
WINDOWS: C:\WINDOWS\System32\Drivers\etc\HOSTS
ANDROID: /system/etc/hosts

If you like, we can cover this in gory detail in another thread, as I'm an
expert (if I say so myself) in using freeware to get done what I need to
get done, where Android freeware easily interfaces perfectly to Windows
(AFAIK).

NOTE: I do the same with iOS connectivity except the limitations of what
anyone can functionally accomplish with iOS are severe - but those extreme
functionality limitations of iOS are not the topic of this conversation.

> The reason that this is not possible is apparently security built into the
> operating system, rather than just that no-one has though to write an app to
> do it.

I'd like to help you solve this issue. If you like, just open a new thread
on either Android or iOS newsgroups and I'll help you out there.

> In the same way, it sounds as if real-time wifi signal strength monitoring
> has been blocked by iOS.

You are correct that Apple limits the factual information that is available
to its users in the form of disallowing a WiFi signal strength graph over
time.

Certainly the Apple hardware is fully capable of graphing WiFi (and
cellular) signal strength in detail (including unique tower ids), and
certainly there are jailbroken alternatives that can reveal the actual
facts to the iOS user base.

The unanswered question is why would Apple so severely limit the factual
information that is available to its users? What kind of "security threat"
can it be for iOS users to know real actual facts about their current Wi-Fi
& cellular environment?

[Snit]

On 10/10/17, 12:50 AM, in article orhu3a$rse$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry

newton" <ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> While iOS apologists ignore facts - it's a fact that iOS devices can't even
> graph Wi-Fi signal strength over time:
> <http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/10/10/wifi1.jpg>

<https://youtu.be/7QaABa6DFIo>

You are simply wrong. Oh, and you cannot do with Android what I show with
iOS.

...


--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>

[Snit]

On 10/10/17, 9:58 AM, in article slrnotpv0o....@snow.local, "Lewis"

<g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> In message <ori0i6$10d5$1...@gioia.aioe.org> Wilf <wi...@replyto.newsgroup> wrote:
>> I'm not an iOS apologist. I use iOS but would use anything I found
>> useful. But that aside, as a more or less lay user, why would I care
>> whether the functionality you mention is available, or not?
>
> This is what the idiot troll does. He finds a very narrow thing that he
> can't figure out how to do on iOS and then claims it is a major feature
> that iOS cannot do.

More than that, he KNOWS iOS can do it... and he KNOWS he cannot do on
Android what is shown on iOS:

<https://youtu.be/7QaABa6DFIo>

> Not only is he an idiot and a liar, but he's also shockingly
> incompetent.

Absolutely.

> <https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/wi-fi-sweetspots/id855457383?mt=8>
> Observe how Wi-Fi connection speed fluctuates over time, and locate the
> fastest and slowest Wi-Fi spots in your room! Discover the perfect spot
> for your wireless router, access point, or wireless gaming console by
> using Wi-Fi SweetSpots! Available on iPhone with a simple, easy-to-use
> design.
>
> I've never used it, but it took nearly a second to find it and it sounds
> like it should do the job.

I show that in my video... plus show other things "harry" cannot do with
Android.

But he is just trolling for attention and I (and you and others) are giving
it to him.

[Frank Slootweg]

Snit <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> On 10/10/17, 9:58 AM, in article slrnotpv0o....@snow.local, "Lewis"
> <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>
> > In message <ori0i6$10d5$1...@gioia.aioe.org> Wilf <wi...@replyto.newsgroup> wrote:
> >> I'm not an iOS apologist. I use iOS but would use anything I found
> >> useful. But that aside, as a more or less lay user, why would I care
> >> whether the functionality you mention is available, or not?
> >
> > This is what the idiot troll does. He finds a very narrow thing that he
> > can't figure out how to do on iOS and then claims it is a major feature
> > that iOS cannot do.
>
> More than that, he KNOWS iOS can do it... and he KNOWS he cannot do on
> Android what is shown on iOS:
>
> <https://youtu.be/7QaABa6DFIo>

I'm anything but a 'harry' supporter, but exactly *what* in your video
do you think cannot be done on Android?

> > Not only is he an idiot and a liar, but he's also shockingly
> > incompetent.
>
> Absolutely.
>
> > <https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/wi-fi-sweetspots/id855457383?mt=8>
> > Observe how Wi-Fi connection speed fluctuates over time, and locate the
> > fastest and slowest Wi-Fi spots in your room! Discover the perfect spot
> > for your wireless router, access point, or wireless gaming console by
> > using Wi-Fi SweetSpots! Available on iPhone with a simple, easy-to-use
> > design.
> >
> > I've never used it, but it took nearly a second to find it and it sounds
> > like it should do the job.
>
> I show that in my video...

What the 'Wi-Fi SweetSpots' app does on iOS, can surely be done on
Android. Whether there is an *existing* Android app which is comparable
to 'Wi-Fi SweetSpots' iOS app is another matter, But such an app *can*
be written for Android. See for example the Android 'Wifi Analyzer' app.
That gathers the type of data which is needed for the functionality of
the 'Wi-Fi SweetSpots' iOS app. The rest is just SMOP.

<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.farproc.wifi.analyzer>

> plus show other things "harry" cannot do with
> Android.

Such as what?

> But he is just trolling for attention and I (and you and others) are giving
> it to him.

Exactly.

But *my* point is that you've indeed proven that iOS can do what
'harry' claims it can't, but - IMO - you've not proven that Android
can't do what you show in your video. (Nice video, BTW!)

[Snit]

On 10/10/17, 12:22 PM, in article
orjdmt...@ID-201911.user.individual.net, "Frank Slootweg"

<th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

> Snit <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> On 10/10/17, 9:58 AM, in article slrnotpv0o....@snow.local, "Lewis"
>> <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <ori0i6$10d5$1...@gioia.aioe.org> Wilf <wi...@replyto.newsgroup>
>>> wrote:
>>>> I'm not an iOS apologist. I use iOS but would use anything I found
>>>> useful. But that aside, as a more or less lay user, why would I care
>>>> whether the functionality you mention is available, or not?
>>>
>>> This is what the idiot troll does. He finds a very narrow thing that he
>>> can't figure out how to do on iOS and then claims it is a major feature
>>> that iOS cannot do.
>>
>> More than that, he KNOWS iOS can do it... and he KNOWS he cannot do on
>> Android what is shown on iOS:
>>
>> <https://youtu.be/7QaABa6DFIo>
>
> I'm anything but a 'harry' supporter, but exactly *what* in your video
> do you think cannot be done on Android?

At least as far as I can tell you cannot record the Android screen,
coordinated with a desktop screen, and sound -- and when you are talking
about making videos for showing people how to move files and the like that
can be important. Add to that I have the "mouse" pointer going from the
desktop to the iOS screen (faked) to help the user follow the action. If I
was doing pinches and the like I would have to do other things, of course,
but for many tasks this works great.

Even just recording the Android screen, computer sounds, and voice is
something I cannot find for Android. I could be wrong though and maybe it
does exist. If you can show these type things on Android (and, where
applicable) any desktop OS that would be great. Include the mouse to show
touch (added in post production) and blurring (also added in post
production) and voice altering, etc. Much of that COULD be done (you can do
it in many video editors) but it is hard enough to do I bet "harry" never
shows it.

>>> Not only is he an idiot and a liar, but he's also shockingly
>>> incompetent.
>>
>> Absolutely.
>>
>>> <https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/wi-fi-sweetspots/id855457383?mt=8>
>>> Observe how Wi-Fi connection speed fluctuates over time, and locate the
>>> fastest and slowest Wi-Fi spots in your room! Discover the perfect spot
>>> for your wireless router, access point, or wireless gaming console by
>>> using Wi-Fi SweetSpots! Available on iPhone with a simple, easy-to-use
>>> design.
>>>
>>> I've never used it, but it took nearly a second to find it and it sounds
>>> like it should do the job.
>>
>> I show that in my video...
>
> What the 'Wi-Fi SweetSpots' app does on iOS, can surely be done on
> Android.

Sure... though "harry" has yet to show a video where we see it happening
over time. :)

Yes, I know there are video recording apps for Android, too.

> Whether there is an *existing* Android app which is comparable
> to 'Wi-Fi SweetSpots' iOS app is another matter, But such an app *can*
> be written for Android. See for example the Android 'Wifi Analyzer' app.
> That gathers the type of data which is needed for the functionality of
> the 'Wi-Fi SweetSpots' iOS app. The rest is just SMOP.
>
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.farproc.wifi.analyzer>

Sure: the point was "harry" insisted Android could do this and iOS could
not. It was trivial to show he was wrong.

>> plus show other things "harry" cannot do with Android.
>
> Such as what?

See above.

>> But he is just trolling for attention and I (and you and others) are giving
>> it to him.
>
> Exactly.
>
> But *my* point is that you've indeed proven that iOS can do what
> 'harry' claims it can't, but - IMO - you've not proven that Android
> can't do what you show in your video. (Nice video, BTW!)

Thanks. While it MIGHT be possible to make such a video showing Android and
whatever desktop OS of your choice, with the timing coordinated (and done in
real time), as well as the voice and even the mouse pointer moving "over"
the Android device, I have not seen such videos. At the very least it seems
such things are much harder on Android.

Mine took two and a half minutes to record and maybe 5-10 minutes to edit
(did not time it). Had I taken longer I could have done better with some of
the mouse movement... though with the newer tools it is pretty easy to do a
darn good job quickly.

[harry newton]

He who is Frank Slootweg said on 10 Oct 2017 19:22:51 GMT:

> But *my* point is that you've indeed proven that iOS can do what
> 'harry' claims it can't, but - IMO - you've not proven that Android
> can't do what you show in your video. (Nice video, BTW!)

Frank,

Anyone can make a video but Snit's video doesn't show what you (and he, and
nospam, and Lewis) *think* it shows. Anyone with a brain can see exactly
what the OP said and what Snit's video shows. If they don't see the
difference, they don't have a brain.

Really.
That's my entire point.

The iOS apologists don't even understand the simplest of facts.

Anyone can show videos - I can show videos too. Here's one for you.
<https://www.sendspace.com/file/gvckbe>

All that video does is show what I showed in the screenshot, but on video.
You don't need a *video* to show facts.

All my facts in the OP are correct. Every single one.

Which is my whole point.
Not one of the facts by the iOS apologists negates the facts in the OP.

Doesn't anyone have a brain here that they can *see* & understand facts?
It's so frustrating dealing with iOS newsgroups composed of utter morons.

Just look at the facts I presented in the OP.
Then look at the facts the iOS apologists presented.

Do you see your error (and their error)?
You don't?

Look again.
And again.

And again.

*Read the facts people.*

All the iOS apologists did (Snit, nospam, & Lewis) was prove my point!

"These clueless iOS apologists are so easily fooled by
Marketing gimmicks, it's actually kind of sad to read
what they write as they apologize for iOS' faults.

Am I the only one on this entire set of newsgroups who can comprehend
facts?

I have to ask that if I have to point out why *every* single statement made
in the posts by the iOS apologists in this thread are dead wrong, then I'm
dealing with an entire set of newsgroup morons.

There's a reason I wrote in the OP:

"It's just sad how clueless & misinformed iOS apologists actually are."

Am I the only one who can comprehend facts on this entire set of ngs?
Can't *anyone* else see the *obvious* factual flaws in their arguments?
Nobody?

Please. Someone tell me that you can understand the facts that I presented
in the OP, and why all the facts presented by the iOS apologists are
incorrect with respect to the OP's statements.

Is *everyone* here so influenced by pretty marketing drawings that they
can't comprehend cold hard simple facts about iOS and Android capabilities?

--
Not one iOS apologist understands the simple facts in the original post!

[Lewis]

In message <orjfp3$1ome$1...@gioia.aioe.org> harry newton <ha...@is.invalid> wrote:
> He who is Frank Slootweg said on 10 Oct 2017 19:22:51 GMT:

>> But *my* point is that you've indeed proven that iOS can do what
>> 'harry' claims it can't, but - IMO - you've not proven that Android
>> can't do what you show in your video. (Nice video, BTW!)

> Anyone can make a video but Snit's video doesn't show what you (and he, and
> nospam, and Lewis) *think* it shows. Anyone with a brain can see exactly
> what the OP said and what Snit's video shows. If they don't see the
> difference, they don't have a brain.

Once again you are exposed as a lying sack of shit. I did not post a
video, mention a video, make any allusions to a vide, nor watch a video.

You stated a lie, I posted a link to an app that proved you were lying.

QED.

> Am I the only one on this entire set of newsgroups who can comprehend
> facts?

You are the only person here with no concept whatsoever of what a fact
it.

--
Well boys, we got three engines out, we got more holes in us than a
horse trader's mule, the radio is gone and we're leaking fuel and if we
was flying any lower why we'd need sleigh bells on this thing... but we
got one little budge on those Roosskies. At this height why they might
harpoon us but they dang sure ain't gonna spot us on no radar screen!

[Snit]

On 10/10/17, 2:57 PM, in article orjfp3$1ome$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry

newton" <ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> He who is Frank Slootweg said on 10 Oct 2017 19:22:51 GMT:
>
>> But *my* point is that you've indeed proven that iOS can do what
>> 'harry' claims it can't, but - IMO - you've not proven that Android
>> can't do what you show in your video. (Nice video, BTW!)
>
> Frank,
>
> Anyone can make a video but Snit's video doesn't show what you (and he, and
> nospam, and Lewis) *think* it shows.

You claim anyone can make a video... so make one. Like mine.

And mine DOES show what I think it shows. I know... I show it!

...

> All that video does is show what I showed in the screenshot, but on video.
> You don't need a *video* to show facts.

In other words: you CANNOT make a video like the one I did. Not merely do
not want to... you CANNOT. And it is not because of your lack of skills, or
at least not only that, it is because you are on Android.

...

[Jolly Roger]

On 2017-10-10, harry newton <ha...@is.invalid> wrote:
>
> Am I the only one who can comprehend facts on this entire set of ngs?
> Can't *anyone* else see the *obvious* factual flaws in their
> arguments?
> Nobody?
>
> Please. Someone tell me that you can understand the facts that I
> presented

*clap* *clap* *clap*

WOOO!! What a performance! I give you the Apple-hating delusional dimwit
troll currently known as "harry newton", everyone! Isn't he special? : D

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[micky]

Why do you keep posting this stuff on the android group. Does anyone
here actually want this iphone junk?

In comp.mobile.android, on Tue, 10 Oct 2017 07:50:03 +0000 (UTC), harry

[Johan]

Op 10-okt.-17 om 09:50 schreef harry newton:

Harry, congrats with your android-phone. Now you can look all day long
at the strenghts of your wifi.
I am only a simple user: wifi works or it does not. And when it is
working (it normally does) I use my iphone to communicate, to recieve
mails and looks things up at the internet. I have other things to do
than looking all day at the strenght of the wifi-signal.

So be happy and stop finding excuses why you use an android-phone, I
think because you can't afford an iPhone.
Get alive and stop with your obsession. It looks you have the Trump-disease.

[sms]

On 10/10/2017 12:50 AM, harry newton wrote:
> While iOS apologists ignore facts - it's a fact that iOS devices can't
> even graph Wi-Fi signal strength over time:
> <http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/10/10/wifi1.jpg>
>
> It's a fact that iOS devices are so functionally non-capable that
> non-jailbroken iOS mobile devices can't even graph the real-time Wi-Fi
> signal strength of just the local access point they're connected to as
> they walk around the home, office, or hotel.
> <http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/10/10/wifi2.jpg>

iOS devices are consumer products.

I doubt if there are more than a handful of iPhone users that ever have
wanted to graph real time Wi-Fi signal strength.

If you install Wi-Fi systems professionally or semi-professionally then
you'd use a laptop or an Android device for this purpose. The issue with
iOS is that the API does not provide the necessary information to be
able to create an app for that, even though the hardware is certainly
capable of providing that information. There are similar limitations
with the Bluetooth API and the GPS API. Deal with it.

The issue we ran into at work was not with Wi-Fi but with GPS. On
Android you can get the raw NMEA data and use it in applications, while
on iOS this is not possible. It was no big deal, we just used Android
devices and our customers were fine with being restricted to Android. We
certainly were not going to tell our customers to jailbreak iOS devices!

The bottom line is that iOS devices are not intended to be used for
industrial, commercial, medical, or scientific purposes where you need
to access raw data from internal sub-systems and sensors--it's just not
a target market for iOS devices (though perhaps there should be a
separate product line, not sold through retail channels, for these
market segments, I'll suggest it to Tim).

The jailbreaking schtick was useful back when there were no Android
devices of comparable quality to the iPhone or iPad, but now there's no
reason to bother with all that--if you need the functionality that you
gain by jailbreaking just get an Android device instead. Plus it's
gotten a lot harder to jailbreak iOS devices.

The even more bottom line is this: every feature you add to a product,
whether hardware or software, adds development, support, and/or warranty
costs. Apple seems to have no problem with generating a high volume of
high margin sales with their consumer focused business model, and in
fact they have shed products that don't fit that model.

If it were up to you, an iphone would look like this:
<http://starecat.com/content/wp-content/uploads/if-apple-was-a-democracy-iphone-7-bulky-with-too-many-features.jpg>

While I greatly appreciate the hardware versatility of Android, I can
just imagine the support costs to Apple if they followed the Android
open-system model. Users and developers would expect every USB
peripheral on the planet to be supported, and would demand development
support for all the internal sensors. Android users and developers know
that they're pretty much on their own with apps and peripherals and know
that they can't get much support from the hardware or OS manufacturer.

[B...@onramp.net]

On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 01:03:50 -0400, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

>
>Why do you keep posting this stuff on the android group. Does anyone
>here actually want this iphone junk?

Well, no one on the iPhone group wants the Android junk either.

[nospam]

In article <orlegs$lkn$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> On 10/10/2017 12:50 AM, harry newton wrote:
> > While iOS apologists ignore facts - it's a fact that iOS devices can't
> > even graph Wi-Fi signal strength over time:
> > <http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/10/10/wifi1.jpg>
> >
> > It's a fact that iOS devices are so functionally non-capable that
> > non-jailbroken iOS mobile devices can't even graph the real-time Wi-Fi
> > signal strength of just the local access point they're connected to as
> > they walk around the home, office, or hotel.
> > <http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/10/10/wifi2.jpg>
>
> iOS devices are consumer products.

so are android devices.

> I doubt if there are more than a handful of iPhone users that ever have
> wanted to graph real time Wi-Fi signal strength.

same for android. it's a very, very niche task.

> If you install Wi-Fi systems professionally or semi-professionally then
> you'd use a laptop or an Android device for this purpose.

laptop maybe, but more likely, dedicated tools designed specifically
for that task. pros don't have time to waste on shitty apps.

> The issue with
> iOS is that the API does not provide the necessary information to be
> able to create an app for that, even though the hardware is certainly
> capable of providing that information. There are similar limitations
> with the Bluetooth API and the GPS API. Deal with it.

absolutely wrong.

> The issue we ran into at work was not with Wi-Fi but with GPS. On
> Android you can get the raw NMEA data and use it in applications, while
> on iOS this is not possible. It was no big deal, we just used Android
> devices and our customers were fine with being restricted to Android. We
> certainly were not going to tell our customers to jailbreak iOS devices!

getting raw nmea data is also very niche.

> The bottom line is that iOS devices are not intended to be used for
> industrial, commercial, medical, or scientific purposes where you need
> to access raw data from internal sub-systems and sensors--it's just not
> a target market for iOS devices (though perhaps there should be a
> separate product line, not sold through retail channels, for these
> market segments, I'll suggest it to Tim).

complete utter nonsense.

ios devices are very widely used in *all* of those areas, particularly
medical, where ios offers numerous developer apis designed specifically
for medical apps.

<https://www.fastcompany.com/3058124/apple-carekit-lets-patients-researc
hers-team-up-to-help-each-other>
CareKit, which comes out of Apple¹s medical-research platform,
ResearchKit, is intended for a broad spectrum of patients, not just
people taking part in medical studies. Any health-app maker can use
it to make it easier for patients to share their health information
with physicians, friends, or family members who take care of them.
Users can also pull in other information about their health, such as
exercise results.

<https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2016/09/stanford-researchers-lau
nch-iphone-app-to-study-peripheral.html>
Stanford University School of Medicine researchers have launched a
free iPhone app designed to help them conduct a clinical study to
discover better treatments for peripheral artery disease and as a
convenient way for people with the disease to monitor their daily
activity.

<http://appleinsider.com/articles/17/10/02/boston-childrens-hospitals-do
ck-health-app-reduces-doctor-paperwork-exclusive-to-apple-iphone-ipad>
A new iPhone and iPad app deployed at the Boston Children's Hospital
aims to cut back on the pile of physical paper generated by
healthcare as part of doing business ‹and increase the amount of time
that physicians and other caregivers can spend taking care of
patients.
...
The app is being piloted in the Boston Children's Hospital
gastroenterology, allergy/immunology, orthopedics and General
Pediatrics departments. External pilot programs are set to begin
shortly.

[NY]

"sms" <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:orlegs$lkn$1...@dont-email.me...

> If you install Wi-Fi systems professionally or semi-professionally then
> you'd use a laptop or an Android device for this purpose. The issue with
> iOS is that the API does not provide the necessary information to be able
> to create an app for that, even though the hardware is certainly capable
> of providing that information. There are similar limitations with the
> Bluetooth API and the GPS API. Deal with it.
>
> The issue we ran into at work was not with Wi-Fi but with GPS. On Android
> you can get the raw NMEA data and use it in applications, while on iOS
> this is not possible. It was no big deal, we just used Android devices and
> our customers were fine with being restricted to Android. We certainly
> were not going to tell our customers to jailbreak iOS devices!
>
> The bottom line is that iOS devices are not intended to be used for
> industrial, commercial, medical, or scientific purposes where you need to
> access raw data from internal sub-systems and sensors--it's just not a
> target market for iOS devices (though perhaps there should be a separate
> product line, not sold through retail channels, for these market segments,
> I'll suggest it to Tim).

This is why I hate Apple - they are too controlling and want everyone to use
their products in the approved Apple way. There have been various occasions
when I've wanted to do something on an Apple tablet or laptop that I could
do in my sleep on Windows or Android. And the standard answer, which is
almost laughable in its predictability, is "But you shouldn't even *want* to
do that on an Apple".

Apples are great for doing the things that they are designed for. Using a
package such as Word or Photoshop is about as easy on Apple as Windows, once
you remember a few slight differences of keystrokes, But anything else is
locked-down - it's not that you do it differently from Windows, it's that
you just can't do it.

When my wife's Android tablet died (battery wouldn't hold any charge) she
decided to get an Apple iPad so we'd get some experience of Apples as well
as Windows and Android, since my job is to supply computer support to people
in the neighbourhood. Hardly a day goes by without her cursing all the
things that she can't do with her iPad - even as simple as being able to
have two apps such as a browser and Facebook opena t the same time, without
the browser "losing" the page that it was displaying as soon as she
task-switches to Facebook and back to the browser.

Connectors are non-standard. I know that the lightning connector is a lot
more rugged than a micro USB, but it's non-standard so you need to carry
around with you a supply of Apple-specific cables instead of being able to
use any old charger and USB cables. Innovation and improvement is all very
well as long as everyone adopts it, going it alone can sometimes place you
out on a limb.

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Wed, 11 Oct 2017 10:55:15 -0500,

B...@Onramp.net wrote:

>On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 01:03:50 -0400, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>Why do you keep posting this stuff on the android group. Does anyone
>>here actually want this iphone junk?
>
>Well, no one on the iPhone group wants the Android junk either.

Then posters should stop posting it to them. Is there a lot of that?

Is posting iphone junk to Android considered understandable acceptable
retaliation by the person who does it?

[nospam]

In article <HuOdnVLARefZ2kPE...@brightview.co.uk>, NY

<m...@privacy.net> wrote:

>
> This is why I hate Apple - they are too controlling and want everyone to use
> their products in the approved Apple way.

complete nonsense.

apple puts absolutely no restrictions whatsoever on how to use their
products. none. zero.

> There have been various occasions
> when I've wanted to do something on an Apple tablet or laptop that I could
> do in my sleep on Windows or Android. And the standard answer, which is
> almost laughable in its predictability, is "But you shouldn't even *want* to
> do that on an Apple".

such as what, exactly? or are you trolling?

> Apples are great for doing the things that they are designed for. Using a
> package such as Word or Photoshop is about as easy on Apple as Windows, once
> you remember a few slight differences of keystrokes, But anything else is
> locked-down - it's not that you do it differently from Windows, it's that
> you just can't do it.

complete nonsense.

just because you can't figure out how to do something doesn't mean it's
not possible.

> When my wife's Android tablet died (battery wouldn't hold any charge) she
> decided to get an Apple iPad so we'd get some experience of Apples as well
> as Windows and Android, since my job is to supply computer support to people
> in the neighbourhood. Hardly a day goes by without her cursing all the
> things that she can't do with her iPad - even as simple as being able to
> have two apps such as a browser and Facebook opena t the same time, without
> the browser "losing" the page that it was displaying as soon as she
> task-switches to Facebook and back to the browser.

you either have a very old ipad or can't be bothered to learn how.

not only are two apps possible, but also a third app:

<https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9273509/crazymulti_ve
rge.jpg>

<https://i0.wp.com/www.gottabemobile.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/How-
to-use-two-apps-at-same-time-iPad-iOS-9.jpg>

<https://www.imore.com/sites/imore.com/files/styles/larger/public/field/
image/2017/06/split-view-ios-11.jpg>

also use picture-in-picture (pip) to watch a video in a floating window:

<https://photos.prnewswire.com/prnvar/20150917/267773>

<https://www.imore.com/sites/imore.com/files/styles/xlarge_wm_brw/public
/field/image/2015/08/ios-9-pip-ipad-air-hero.jpg>

> Connectors are non-standard. I know that the lightning connector is a lot
> more rugged than a micro USB, but it's non-standard so you need to carry
> around with you a supply of Apple-specific cables instead of being able to
> use any old charger and USB cables. Innovation and improvement is all very
> well as long as everyone adopts it, going it alone can sometimes place you
> out on a limb.

lightning cables are available pretty much everywhere, and you only
need to carry one cable, not 'a supply'.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2017-10-11, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
> Why do you keep posting this stuff on the android group.

Because he literally has nothing better to do with his life than troll
the iOS and Android news groups. He also regularly changes nyms to avoid
kill filters. He's a pathetic loser.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2017-10-11, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com> wrote:

> In comp.mobile.android, on Wed, 11 Oct 2017 10:55:15 -0500,
> B...@Onramp.net wrote:
>>On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 01:03:50 -0400, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Why do you keep posting this stuff on the android group. Does anyone
>>>here actually want this iphone junk?
>>
>>Well, no one on the iPhone group wants the Android junk either.
>
> Then posters should stop posting it to them. Is there a lot of that?

No, thankfully, there's not a lot of that. In fact, it's generally one
person making these posts. The poster of this thread is currently known
as "harry", and is an Apple-hating troll who regularly cross-posts to
both news groups and also regularly changes his nym to avoid kill
filters.

> Is posting iphone junk to Android considered understandable acceptable
> retaliation by the person who does it?

Loser trolls get pleasure from disrupting otherwise peaceful groups.

[Chris]

Disagree. There are many things I do with my Mac that would be extremely
painful to do on Windows.

> When my wife's Android tablet died (battery wouldn't hold any charge) she
> decided to get an Apple iPad so we'd get some experience of Apples as well
> as Windows and Android, since my job is to supply computer support to people
> in the neighbourhood. Hardly a day goes by without her cursing all the
> things that she can't do with her iPad - even as simple as being able to
> have two apps such as a browser and Facebook opena t the same time, without
> the browser "losing" the page that it was displaying as soon as she
> task-switches to Facebook and back to the browser.

That's funny. I like the fact that iOS most definitely doesn't lose browser
pages. In particular when using the task switcher I don't even need to go
back to the browser to see the current page as it's already shown in the
"preview" of the browser.

> Connectors are non-standard. I know that the lightning connector is a lot
> more rugged than a micro USB, but it's non-standard so you need to carry
> around with you a supply of Apple-specific cables instead of being able to
> use any old charger and USB cables.

The same argument can be made the other way around. If all you have is iOS
stuff, the day you get an Android device you suddenly have to get a whole
bunch of new cables.

Yes of course it would be ideal if everything was the same, but that's not
how life works.

> Innovation and improvement is all very
> well as long as everyone adopts it, going it alone can sometimes place you
> out on a limb.

With that argument we wouldn't have any progress. Can't have progress
without change...

[nospam]

In article <orlke0$5uv$1...@dont-email.me>, Chris <ithi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> > Connectors are non-standard. I know that the lightning connector is a lot
> > more rugged than a micro USB, but it's non-standard so you need to carry
> > around with you a supply of Apple-specific cables instead of being able to
> > use any old charger and USB cables.
>
> The same argument can be made the other way around. If all you have is iOS
> stuff, the day you get an Android device you suddenly have to get a whole
> bunch of new cables.

and more than just one type, because android phones use mini-usb,
micro-usb, micro-usb 3 and now usb-c. some even have a custom port.

even those upgrading from one android phone to another likely will need
a new cable.

> Yes of course it would be ideal if everything was the same, but that's not
> how life works.

yep.

[Frank Slootweg]

[Disclaimer: I don't have practical experience with this stuff, so my
comments are based on what I've seen, read, etc..]

For the above, one needs:

- Software which can project the Android screen on the 'PC' desktop and
can control the Android device with the PC's mouse and keyboard.
There are many such applications. Of course most of them are for a
Windows PC. You might not find them in the (Google) Play Store,
because the Android component is only a tiny 'server' app and the main
software is the Windows 'client' application.

- Software which can record the video and audio from the desktop. That
software has nothing to do with Android, but just with the desktop OS
(Windows). Of course this software also exists.

> Even just recording the Android screen, computer sounds, and voice is
> something I cannot find for Android.

As said above, the recording part has nothing to do with Android. The
recording software will just record what's on the screen (and sound
output). It doesn't care where the video/sound *came* from, just where
it *is*.

> I could be wrong though and maybe it
> does exist. If you can show these type things on Android (and, where
> applicable) any desktop OS that would be great. Include the mouse to show
> touch (added in post production) and blurring (also added in post
> production) and voice altering, etc. Much of that COULD be done (you can do
> it in many video editors) but it is hard enough to do I bet "harry" never
> shows it.

I think that's the crux of this (non-)discussion: 1) whether or not
*visual* proof is needed to prove that something is possible and 2)
whether or not *actual* proof is needed or that theoretical proof is
sufficient (i.e. that if a 'Wi-Fi SweetSpots' work-a-like doesn't exist
for Android it could be written).

It's not up to me to decide what proof you or/and others require.

Unless you've questions/comments/etc., I'm out of here! :-)

[Rest left for completeness/reference:]

[harry newton]

He who is harry newton said on Tue, 10 Oct 2017 07:50:03 +0000 (UTC):

> While iOS apologists ignore facts - it's a fact that iOS devices can't even
> graph Wi-Fi signal strength over time:

> <http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/10/10/wifi1.jpg>

(Am I the only one with a working brain in these three newsgroups?)

This is Android: <http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/10/11/2wifianalyzer.jpg>
This is iOS: <http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/10/11/wifi_sweetspots.jpg>

It still hasn't dawned on the iOS apologists that their WiFi Sweetspots app
can't show WiFi signal strength graphs over time!

The iOS apologists have utterly no idea what their iOS app is even showing.
HINT: Look at the ordinate of all their graphs.
HINT: Or just notice it has to *connect* to the AP to report anything.

Tell us: What is their iOS app Y-axis *actually* showing?
C'mon. Think. Think hard. Really hard. What is the iOS app Y-axis showing?

Sadly, these iOS apologists will likely never comprehend actual facts.
They're so utterly fooled by Marketing gimmickry, they can't even think.

In the original post, every statement is an accurate fact.

Not a single statement from the iOS apologists was fact.
The iOS apologists are (yet again) completely fooled by pretty pictures!

They still don't even realize nor understand what the y-axis of their iOS
app is actually showing!

That's not the only thing that their iOS app fooled them on, e.g., they
don't realize it won't show the signal strength of unconnected networks
either, but the most important thing is that it doesn't show signal
strength, period.

They iOS apologists are fooled every time by pretty marketing junk!
It's hard to intelligently converse with people *that* immune to facts.
--
The iOS apologists still don't know what their app is actually reporting!

[Frank Slootweg]

B...@onramp.net wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 01:03:50 -0400, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Why do you keep posting this stuff on the android group. Does anyone
> >here actually want this iphone junk?
>
> Well, no one on the iPhone group wants the Android junk either.

You both are using Forte Agent, so perhaps you can help eachother by
figuring out how to filter out crossposts and be done with it.

[It's trivial in my newsreader, but tht doesn't help you.]

[harry newton]

He who is Frank Slootweg said on 11 Oct 2017 17:45:53 GMT:

> I think that's the crux of this (non-)discussion: 1) whether or not
> *visual* proof is needed to prove that something is possible and 2)
> whether or not *actual* proof is needed or that theoretical proof is
> sufficient (i.e. that if a 'Wi-Fi SweetSpots' work-a-like doesn't exist
> for Android it could be written).
>
> It's not up to me to decide what proof you or/and others require.

Frank,

I'm actually surprised you were bamboozled by the "video" that Snit showed.

What neither you nor he realizes is what this simple screenshot shows:
<http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/10/11/wifi_sweetspots.jpg>

The iOS apologist you are conversing with has clearly said that these types
of Android screenshots don't prove (to him) a moving graph over time of all
the access point signal strengths in the vicinity:
Fritz Wlan: <http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/10/10/wifi3.jpg>
WiFI Analyzer: http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/10/11/2wifianalyzer.jpg

What's sad is that *all* the iOS apologists don't seem to realize that what
they think their iOS app is showing isn't WiFi signal strength. It doesn't
even dawn on them that their app can't show (what it shows) for all the APs
in the vicinity either.

It's so very sad that actual facts are lost upon these iOS apologists.

Worse, the specific iOS apologist you're speaking with (Snit) has claimed
so many times that only a video shows wifi signal strength over time (even
though his video shows nothing of the sort since he doesn't understand what
his app is actually showing).

Nonetheless, if he so desperately can't believe a WiFi-signal-strength fact
without a video, here they are (where these Android videos actually *do*
show wifi signal strength!
WiFi Analyzer: <http://www.filedropper.com/wifianalyzersignalstrength>
Fritz: <https://www.sendspace.com/file/gvckbe>

Since I have iOS devices, I could probably just as well have provided a
video of the utterly useless marketing gimmick app Snit and the other iOS
apologists applauded, but the iOS video would show nothing since the app
doesn't actually show wifi signal strength in the first place!

What's so very sad is that only three people on this thread seem to have a
working brain, where *all* the iOS apologists have any comprehension of
simple facts.
--
It's very sad that the iOS apologists don't understand even basic facts.

[sms]

On 10/11/2017 9:30 AM, NY wrote:

> This is why I hate Apple - they are too controlling and want everyone to
> use their products in the approved Apple way. There have been various
> occasions when I've wanted to do something on an Apple tablet or laptop
> that I could do in my sleep on Windows or Android. And the standard
> answer, which is almost laughable in its predictability, is "But you
> shouldn't even *want* to do that on an Apple".

You are not their target market.

My wife has both an iPhone (work issued) and an Android phone (for
non-business use). She much prefers the iPhone but she isn't supposed to
use it for non-work related stuff (she'd love a dual-SIM iPhone!). OTOH
there are features of the Android phone, that aren't on the iPhone that
she uses often without even realizing it because I set it all up, like
all the music I transferred from CDs onto the MicroSD card.

I can safely say that she would never want to graph Wi-Fi signal
strength, or look at satellite data, with either the iPhone or the
Android phone. But at work, several people would like to do those
things, and we have a bunch of Android tablets to use for that stuff.

> When my wife's Android tablet died (battery wouldn't hold any charge)
> she decided to get an Apple iPad so we'd get some experience of Apples
> as well as Windows and Android, since my job is to supply computer
> support to people in the neighbourhood. Hardly a day goes by without her
> cursing all the things that she can't do with her iPad - even as simple
> as being able to have two apps such as a browser and Facebook opena t
> the same time, without the browser "losing" the page that it was
> displaying as soon as she task-switches to Facebook and back to the
> browser.

Yes, I was an Android tablet user and then I was supplied with an iPad
Air 2 with unlimited Verizon data. Had I not been used to the
capabilities of the Android tablets I had been using I would not have
believed that some of the stuff that was so easy on Android was
impossible on iOS. I went searching for iOS apps that just did not
exist, or my searches ended up on Cydia.

The bottom line is that the iPad was designed primarily as a content
consumption device, not as a productivity device. If you're trying to
use the iPad as a thin and light laptop replacement, or for scientific,
technical, industrial purposes, or for content creation, it's not the
optimal choice because the apps often can't be written (due to the APIs)
and you can't plug in external peripherals. But again, that's not the
market for the iPad.

[B...@onramp.net]

On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 12:45:57 -0400, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

>In comp.mobile.android, on Wed, 11 Oct 2017 10:55:15 -0500,
>B...@Onramp.net wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 01:03:50 -0400, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Why do you keep posting this stuff on the android group. Does anyone
>>>here actually want this iphone junk?
>>
>>Well, no one on the iPhone group wants the Android junk either.
>
>Then posters should stop posting it to them.

Agreed, but most just reply without altering the groups.

>Is there a lot of that?
>
>Is posting iphone junk to Android considered understandable acceptable
>retaliation by the person who does it?

Individuals who cross post would have to answer that.

[nospam]

In article <orlnt5$240$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> Yes, I was an Android tablet user and then I was supplied with an iPad
> Air 2 with unlimited Verizon data. Had I not been used to the
> capabilities of the Android tablets I had been using I would not have
> believed that some of the stuff that was so easy on Android was
> impossible on iOS. I went searching for iOS apps that just did not
> exist, or my searches ended up on Cydia.

you didn't look very hard, or more likely, didn't look at all.

> The bottom line is that the iPad was designed primarily as a content
> consumption device, not as a productivity device.

nonsense.

> If you're trying to
> use the iPad as a thin and light laptop replacement, or for scientific,
> technical, industrial purposes, or for content creation, it's not the
> optimal choice

tablets of any kind were not intended to be laptop replacements.

> because the apps often can't be written (due to the APIs)
> and you can't plug in external peripherals. But again, that's not the
> market for the iPad.

nonsense.

[Snit]

On 10/11/17, 11:13 AM, in article orln0a$15n3$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry

newton" <ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> He who is Frank Slootweg said on 11 Oct 2017 17:45:53 GMT:
>
>> I think that's the crux of this (non-)discussion: 1) whether or not
>> *visual* proof is needed to prove that something is possible and 2)
>> whether or not *actual* proof is needed or that theoretical proof is
>> sufficient (i.e. that if a 'Wi-Fi SweetSpots' work-a-like doesn't exist
>> for Android it could be written).
>>
>> It's not up to me to decide what proof you or/and others require.
>
> Frank,
>
> I'm actually surprised you were bamboozled by the "video" that Snit showed.

There was nothing there to trick anyone. The closest you might say is the
"faked" mouse pointer which I was 100% upfront about.

<https://youtu.be/7QaABa6DFIo>

It showed tracking Wi-Fi strength OVER TIME, the very thing you spoke about.
You have yet to show that (though your images certainly imply Android can do
so and NOBODY is denying it, so it is not that big of a deal that you have
not).

But what the video did was prove you wrong about your claim that such a
thing cannot be done on iOS. I proved it can.

More than that, you also claimed there was nothing one can do on iOS that
cannot be done on Android. I showed examples of things which I think go
against that:

* Recording the screen, the device sound, and voice all at once.
* Have that be time-coordinated with a desktop system

Add to that, though this is more on the desktop side, I was able to easily
show where the REAL mouse pointer was on the desktop and then easily
transition that into a faked pointer to show where I touched on the iOS
device. This is a very powerful tool for teaching iOS and something I have
not seen for Android. If it is possible it is apparently much harder, at
best.

In other words: you were shown to be wrong on multiple fronts, but it only
slowed your trolling down for a short time.

...

> Worse, the specific iOS apologist you're speaking with (Snit) has claimed
> so many times that only a video shows wifi signal strength over time (even
> though his video shows nothing of the sort since he doesn't understand what
> his app is actually showing).

A single screenshot still image CANNOT show something happening over time.
That is simply a fact.

> Nonetheless, if he so desperately can't believe a WiFi-signal-strength fact
> without a video, here they are (where these Android videos actually *do*
> show wifi signal strength!
> WiFi Analyzer: <http://www.filedropper.com/wifianalyzersignalstrength>
> Fritz: <https://www.sendspace.com/file/gvckbe>

Certainly better... but it backs my point you cannot make such a video with
showing a desktop being time-coordinated with it, nor can you show where you
are pressing (except very poorly), though presumably the heavy breathing
suggests I was wrong about you not being able to have your voice.

...

[nospam]

In article <orln0a$15n3$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, harry newton

<ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> What's so very sad is that only three people on this thread seem to have a
> working brain,

you're definitely not one of them.

[Snit]

On 10/11/17, 10:45 AM, in article
orllg0...@ID-201911.user.individual.net, "Frank Slootweg"

I suppose this would work... in my case I had the device running on its own
and did not click the mouse to use the iOS device but instead ran my iPod
Touch. The mouse movement is real when over the macOS section but I fake the
movement to the iOS part. Still, a good desktop emulator might work well,
though pinching and other multi-touch gestures migth be a challenge.

> There are many such applications. Of course most of them are for a
> Windows PC. You might not find them in the (Google) Play Store,
> because the Android component is only a tiny 'server' app and the main
> software is the Windows 'client' application.
>
> - Software which can record the video and audio from the desktop. That
> software has nothing to do with Android, but just with the desktop OS
> (Windows). Of course this software also exists.

Elsewhere I do go into how not all of this is tied to Android and iOS...
that is a fair criticism of what I show.

And to be fair to harry he HAS shown that he can do a recording which has
the screen, the sound from the Android device, and his talking (or at least
heavy breathing as he walks around). Assuming he did not add that later he
proved me wrong on that (and I am not accusing him of adding it later). I
did not think that was possible on Android... so kudos to him.

He also blocked some text but he did not coordinate it with a desktop, nor
show where he touched well.

>> Even just recording the Android screen, computer sounds, and voice is
>> something I cannot find for Android.
>
> As said above, the recording part has nothing to do with Android. The
> recording software will just record what's on the screen (and sound
> output). It doesn't care where the video/sound *came* from, just where
> it *is*.

With iOS I can do all of those natively... but, as noted, seems Harry found
a way to do that on Android. I commend him for it.

>> I could be wrong though and maybe it does exist. If you can show these type
>> things on Android (and, where applicable) any desktop OS that would be great.
>> Include the mouse to show touch (added in post production) and blurring (also
>> added in post production) and voice altering, etc. Much of that COULD be done
>> (you can do it in many video editors) but it is hard enough to do I bet
>> "harry" never shows it.
>
> I think that's the crux of this (non-)discussion: 1) whether or not
> *visual* proof is needed to prove that something is possible and 2)
> whether or not *actual* proof is needed or that theoretical proof is
> sufficient (i.e. that if a 'Wi-Fi SweetSpots' work-a-like doesn't exist
> for Android it could be written).
>
> It's not up to me to decide what proof you or/and others require.
>
> Unless you've questions/comments/etc., I'm out of here! :-)

The main relevant thing I thought he could not do was have screen, voice,
and device sound at once... but he has shown he can, even if not done well
(it is not a contest of who has better video making skills, so that is
fine).

...

[harry newton]

He who is sms said on Wed, 11 Oct 2017 11:28:54 -0700:
>>> On Android you can have VPN on all the time, with iOS you can't.
>>> With Android you can block Internet access for apps, with iOS you
>>> can only block mobile data.
>>> Since Android is Linux based you can have sandboxed user accounts,
>>> but this is not possible on iOS unless you are a developer

>>
>> This is why I hate Apple - they are too controlling and want everyone to
>> use their products in the approved Apple way. There have been various
>> occasions when I've wanted to do something on an Apple tablet or laptop
>> that I could do in my sleep on Windows or Android. And the standard
>> answer, which is almost laughable in its predictability, is "But you
>> shouldn't even *want* to do that on an Apple".
>
> You are not their target market.

Hi SMS,

You are generally reasonable and intelligent - which I appreciate since
intelligence is clearly missing in the case of nospam's responses when
caught completely unaware that his vaunted iOS app doesn't report WiFi
signal strength after all (it never did ... the iOS apologists were all
utterly fooled by marketing gimmickry).

Regarding Apple iOS target markets, pretty much the iOS devices are non
functional compare to Android in that there's nothing they do that Android
doesn't already do (as has been proven time and time again).

And yet, Android does lots that iOS can't hope to do.

The fact is that anyone who wants to do *any* of the following
"functionalities" is in not Apple's iOS target market.
. Load any app launcher of your own choosing for whatever reason they want
. Organize the desktop as desired (e.g., any grid, any icon, any size)
. Group, duplicate & rename icons to organize the desktop as you wish
. Automatically record phone calls without user intervention if you like
. Measure wifi signal strength for all access points in your vicinity
. Measure cell tower signal strength reporting accurately the tower ID
. FM radios for those who want to use an FM radio in a mobile smart device
. Ad-hoc bluetooth file transfer for those who are not on other networks
. Download large files using efficient bittorrenting if the user wants to
etc.

Other hardware capabilities you won't find in any iOS mobile devices are
the basics, where if you want them, you're not in Apple's target market.
. Expandable storage inside the device if the user feels that is useful
. Likewise with dual SIM cards inside the device if the user wants that
. Similarly with a user-replaceable battery if the user wants one
etc.

However, if you want colors (and if you really really want great colors),
then you *are* smack dab at the top of Apple's iOS device target market!

Look at how apple Marketing *always* puts the color choice as one of the
top three reasons to buy an iPhone (usually the color is the first reason
to buy an iPhone but not always - as glass is this years top reason to buy
an iPhone 8)
<https://www.apple.com/iphone-8/>

--
iOS is not meant for a target market who wants actual app functionality.

[sms]

On 10/11/2017 11:42 AM, Snit wrote:

<snip>

> There was nothing there to trick anyone. The closest you might say is the
> "faked" mouse pointer which I was 100% upfront about.
>
> <https://youtu.be/7QaABa6DFIo>
>
> It showed tracking Wi-Fi strength OVER TIME, the very thing you spoke about.
> You have yet to show that (though your images certainly imply Android can do
> so and NOBODY is denying it, so it is not that big of a deal that you have
> not).

It did not show Wi-Fi signal strength over time (or at any point in
time). Unless you believe that Wi-Fi speed necessarily correlates to
Wi-Fi signal strength, which it doesn't once the signal strength reaches
a certain level.

"Once there is sufficient signal strength to operate reliably in the
maximum supported MCS rate, additional signal strength does not produce
additional throughput gains."

iOS doesn't allow apps to look at Wi-Fi signal strength. Wi-Fi
SweetSpots never makes any claim that this is the case.

But by the same token, for many people, knowing which Wi-Fi network has
the highest data rate may be more useful than knowing which Wi-Fi
network has the highest signal strength. But if you're setting up a
Wi-Fi network with multiple access points then a plot of the signal
strength is useful.

[sms]

On 10/11/2017 11:13 AM, harry newton wrote:

> Worse, the specific iOS apologist you're speaking with (Snit) has claimed
> so many times that only a video shows wifi signal strength over time (even
> though his video shows nothing of the sort since he doesn't understand what
> his app is actually showing).

LOL, pretty sure he understands what that app shows and he is well aware
that it is NOT Wi-Fi signal strength. "Observe how Wi-Fi connection

speed fluctuates over time, and locate the fastest and slowest Wi-Fi

spots in your room!" No where does that app claim to measure or display
signal strength.

[nospam]

In article <orluig$no0$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> iOS doesn't allow apps to look at Wi-Fi signal strength.

yes it does.

[harry newton]

He who is sms said on Wed, 11 Oct 2017 13:22:41 -0700:

>> It showed tracking Wi-Fi strength OVER TIME, the very thing you spoke about.
>> You have yet to show that (though your images certainly imply Android can do
>> so and NOBODY is denying it, so it is not that big of a deal that you have
>> not).
>
> It did not show Wi-Fi signal strength over time (or at any point in
> time). Unless you believe that Wi-Fi speed necessarily correlates to
> Wi-Fi signal strength, which it doesn't once the signal strength reaches
> a certain level.

Thank you SMS for being the *first* person on these three newsgroups who
has engaged his brain, realizing that *everything* in the OP is fact.

Each of the iOS apologists who posted doesn't understand these facts.

Not only was Snit completely fooled, but so was nospam, which is surprising
because nospam is generally not as utterly incomprehensibly stupid as Lewis
and Jolly Roger are (both of whom were also fooled) and as dumb as Frank
Slootweg, who was also fooled (Frank is just a highly emotional
extremely-fact-challenged user though - and not an iOS apologist like the
others are).

It's sad to realize how clueless these iOS apologists are, especially since
they're *still* adamant that their app shows WiFi signal strength over
time, even as you and I both already explained to them that their Y axis
doesn't show what they *think* it shows.

It is likely the iOS apologists will *never* realize that what they *think*
is signal strength, isn't anything of the sort.

iOS apologists are that fact free.

> iOS doesn't allow apps to look at Wi-Fi signal strength. Wi-Fi
> SweetSpots never makes any claim that this is the case.

And yet the iOS apologists do.

iOS apologists just make this stuff up.

Worse, they *believe* the stuff they just make up.

> But by the same token, for many people, knowing which Wi-Fi network has
> the highest data rate may be more useful than knowing which Wi-Fi
> network has the highest signal strength. But if you're setting up a
> Wi-Fi network with multiple access points then a plot of the signal
> strength is useful.

As you are aware, running a speedtest app is a completely different thing
than running an app to measure WiFi signal strength.

What's sad is that *none* of the iOS apologists understand that basic fact.

[Snit]

On 10/11/17, 1:22 PM, in article orluig$no0$1...@dont-email.me, "sms"

Fair enough assessment... I know there are other Wi-Fi tools on iOS but do
not know what they track. If iOS cannot do that then, sure, it is a benefit
that Android can. The claim seems to be that Apple is blocking such a
feature or program... I wonder if Harry can back that?

[nospam]

In article <D603D068.BA79B%use...@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit

<use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> The claim seems to be that Apple is blocking such a
> feature or program... I wonder if Harry can back that?

he can't back anything he says, mostly because it's false.

what's even worse, he continues with his bogus claims after being
proven wrong with actual facts (not the ones in his delusional head).

[Snit]

On 10/11/17, 1:42 PM, in article orlvng$1ko7$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry

You also claimed Apple does not allow this feature. Can you support that?

I can, of course, point to programs that work better under iOS than they do
under Android. Even FB, at least on my older Android device, is far inferior
to the iOS version.

And I do not know the other WiFi programs.

Also keep in mind how you keep shooting yourself in the foot with your false
claims... most of us barely pay attention to you based on your arrogance and
ignorance and name calling.

[Snit]

On 10/11/17, 1:47 PM, in article 111020171647505030%nos...@nospam.invalid,

I will say he showed recording voice when I thought he could not and the
program I used showed speed and not signal strength. Now it is true speed is
USUALLY a more important concern but not always.

Might look at other iOS programs at some time... but even if none exist
Harry has not shown that Apple disallows such things.

[sms]

On 10/11/2017 1:22 PM, harry newton wrote:
>
> Regarding Apple iOS target markets, pretty much the iOS devices are non
> functional compare to Android in that there's nothing they do that Android
> doesn't already do (as has been proven time and time again).
>
> And yet, Android does lots that iOS can't hope to do.

I found one app, that I use all the time, that works on all iOS devices
but will not work on Android phones. It does work on Android tablets
though (to install an Android tablet app on an Android phone is not that
hard, but most people don't know how to do it). It's called
"iLegislate." I have it on my iPad and and on my Thinkpad, but I'd like
it on my phone too, for when I don't want to carry the iPad.

[harry newton]

He who is sms said on Wed, 11 Oct 2017 13:25:23 -0700:

Hi SMS,

Any *intelligent* person would realize in a split second that the app Snit
is portraying as a wifi signal strength app is actually just a speedtest
app.

One look at the graph it outputs proves that it's just a speedtest app.
<http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/10/11/wifi_sweetspots.jpg>

They insist it's not a speedtest app, but a wifi signal strength app.
Why?

Because it's a fact iOS apps can't graph wifi signal strength over time.

That simple fact bothers the iOS apologists so much that they *make up*
fictional wifi-signal-strength outputs out of a simple speedtest app!
<https://youtu.be/7QaABa6DFIo>

Meanwhile, the Android Fritz app clearly show Y-axis decibels (not Mbps).
<http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/10/11/fritzapp.jpg>

As does the Android WiFi Analyzer app wifi signal strength timeline:
<http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/10/11/wifianalyzer.jpg>

The problem thread that deals with facts on the iOS newsgroups is that the
iOS apologists drag it on forever because they just can't handle facts.

As I recall, you're also in the Silicon Valley, where, as you know, we're
used to conversing with intelligent people. But this Snit fellow is not the
kind of person we generally interact with in our daily lives.

You probably don't know this but Snit has trolled that "speedtest" video a
dozen or more times in the Android newsgroup, in threads that have nothing
to do with his video - in the hopes of trolling me into responding.

You'll note that I haven't once responded to any of those video trolls,
since the moment I saw that laughably funny video of a speedtest being
foisted by Snit as a wifi signal strength test, I realized Snit is in the
same very-low-intelligence iOS apologist group as are Lewis and Jolly Roger
- where Snit clearly doesn't even know the difference between a speedtest
app and a wifi signal strength app.

The iOS apologist have proven time and again they can't *understand* facts.

--
iOS apologists have proven they can't comprehend the simplest of facts.

[harry newton]

He who is Snit said on Wed, 11 Oct 2017 12:08:58 -0700:

> And to be fair to harry he HAS shown that he can do a recording which has
> the screen, the sound from the Android device, and his talking (or at least
> heavy breathing as he walks around). Assuming he did not add that later he
> proved me wrong on that (and I am not accusing him of adding it later). I
> did not think that was possible on Android... so kudos to him.

I apologize for the annoying breathing sounds in the WiFi Analyzer video,
as I was climbing multiple sets of stairs because I was ensuring that the
signal strength would change for each of my many access points (every 3
decibel drop is half the power!) as I moved around the house.
WiFi Analyzer: <http://www.filedropper.com/wifianalyzersignalstrength>

I like Fritz freeware better, so I did that video first, before you kept
insisting Android couldn't record inherent and ambient sounds. Since I
wasn't trying to prove anything about Android recording, I added a freeware
audio track to the Fritz video which covered up the ambient sounds recorded
by RecMe on my ancient Android 4.3 phone.
Fritz: <https://www.sendspace.com/file/gvckbe>

> He also blocked some text but he did not coordinate it with a desktop, nor
> show where he touched well.

When I discuss Android and iOS functionality, it's always about the mobile
device all by its itty bitty self.

When I talk about iOS being cripped in device app funcdtionality, it's
never about Apple requiring the user use a desktop to do the simplest of
things, and then asking the user to install behemoth bloatware, just to get
the device to do something useful.

As another example of iOS needing both a desktop and hundreds of megabytes
of bloatware just to do the simplest of things, do you know what the only
known way to get an editable list of the apps of your iOS device is?

HINT: It's currently impossible to do with just the device itself!

Meanwhile, as others have stated in this thread, on Android, there are so
many ways to list the apps on the device to an editable file that anyone
who moves from Android to iOS to do the same thing is shocked at the almost
unfathomable inability of iOS devices to do the simplest of tasks, all by
their itty bitty selves.

It turns out that, on iOS devices, something as simple as listing the apps
installed into an editable file (which, is just about the simplest thing
you can imagine), is impossible if all you have in your hands is the iOS
device (that simple task requires both a computer and iTunes bloatware!).

As it says in the opening post, I only speak fact.
You're welcome to prove me wrong - but it has almost never been done.

Why not?
Because while the iOS apologists just make everything up (witness nospam's
posts made even *after* I explained that the WiFi Sweetspots app was just a
common speedtest app), I only speak facts.

Hence, your video is completely wrong, and you should post an apology:
<http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/10/11/wifisweetspot_video_by_snit.jpg>

> With iOS I can do all of those natively... but, as noted, seems Harry found
> a way to do that on Android. I commend him for it.

My phone is ancient.

It turns out it's even easier to record the screen for newer Android
versions, but it was easy enough because the Android RecMe app has all the
buttons (but Android RecMe is crippleware so it doesn't have all the bells
and whistles enabled in the freeware version).

Even so, my ancient Android 4.3 phone has so many capabilities that the
latest iOS devices don't have, that it's not funny.

For example, my ancient phone can, without rooting:
. Load any app launcher of my own choosing for whatever reason I want

. Organize the desktop as desired (e.g., any grid, any icon, any size)

. Group, duplicate & rename icons to organize the desktop as I wish
. Automatically record phone calls without user intervention if I like
. Measure wifi signal strength for all access points in my vicinity

. Measure cell tower signal strength reporting accurately the tower ID

. Ad-hoc bluetooth file transfer for when I'm not on any other networks
. Download large files using efficient bittorrenting if I want to
. Expandable storage inside the device if I want to use it
. Has a user-replaceable battery (which extended it's life a lot)
etc.

The point is that my five year old ancient Android phone does many useful
things that even the latest iOS devices *still* can't do today.

These are all facts.

> The main relevant thing I thought he could not do was have screen, voice,
> and device sound at once... but he has shown he can, even if not done well
> (it is not a contest of who has better video making skills, so that is
> fine).

I apologize for lousy quality of my video where yours is better quality.
<http://www.filedropper.com/iosshowingwi-fiovertime-7qaaba6dfio>

If it's any consolation, I don't understand why you seem to adamantly feel
that "only" a video proves that WiFi signal strength can be recorded over
time, since a simple screenshot *disproves* that the iOS app was ever
recording signal strength.
<http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/10/11/wifi_sweetspots.jpg>

As SMS showed, just *reading* (and comprehending) the app download site
tells everyone what each app does (if they can comprehend what the app
description says, which SMS had no problem comprehending, for example).

Plain old screenshots easily show that Android records signal strength.
Fritz WLAN: <http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/10/11/fritz_wlan.jpg>
WiFi Analyzer: <http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/10/11/wifianalyzerbbb1c.jpg>

I only bothered to learn how to make a video because you *insisted* that
the screenshots didn't show what they show (even though you and nospam and
the other iOS apologists are the only ones who could possibly dispute such
a fact).

The record will show I asked on the Windows newsgroups for the best
video-editing cross-platform open-source freeware, which turned out to be
Shotcut, which is what I used to create those two videos:
How to edit Android screen recording to remove WiFi MAC address & SSID?
harry newton 28-Sep-17 2:47:28 AM alt.comp.os.windows-10

And that I took my time to solve some Shotcut-to-Windows-interface issues:
How can I add "open with shotcut" to MKV or MP4 video files on Windows 10?
harry newton 04-Oct-17 2:18:06 PM alt.comp.os.windows-10

What do I need to do to get Windows to show decent editors in the right-click context menu?
<ha...@is.invalid> 07-Oct-17 2:04:24 PM alt.comp.os.windows-10

And that I asked experts there for their assessment of the video results:
How does my very first edited video (using Shotcut freeware) look?
harry newton 10-Oct-17 8:21:14 AM alt.comp.os.windows-10

The fact is that I know the mentality of you iOS apologists so well that I
*knew* you'd be foisting that video as *proof* that iOS can do things that
it just can't do.

I also knew nospam would back you up (because he already did so in the many
times you trolled that video in the Android newsgroup). And it was no
surprise that Jolly Roger and Lewis fell for it as neither has any
intelligence whatsoever (which has been proven time and again so I only
speak facts).

The only new surprise was that a new iOS apologist popped up, named
"Johan", who apparently thinks I don't own Apple devices myself (he says,
in effect, that I have iOS envy... heh heh).

While my nascent video skills admittedly suck, and while the two videos I
created for you prove nothing that app descriptions don't already say, and
while the screenshots back up what the apps say, the main thing that
differentiates me from the iOS apologists, is that I have the capacity to
understand facts.

iOS apologits nospam, Jolly Roger, Lewis, etc., refuse to believe facts.

At least you admitted that what I said was fact so I should consider
removing you from the same category as those other iOS apologists, who
*still* have not undergone the simple factual epiphany that you have.

To with: There is no known iOS app that graphs WiFi signal strength over
time for available access points (which is a very important tool to have on
a mobile device).

I said so in the opening post - which remains factually incontrovertible.

--
The sad thing is that the iOS apologists proved they can't comprehend fact.

[harry newton]

He who is sms said on Wed, 11 Oct 2017 14:09:15 -0700:

>> And yet, Android does lots that iOS can't hope to do.
>
> I found one app, that I use all the time, that works on all iOS devices
> but will not work on Android phones. It does work on Android tablets
> though (to install an Android tablet app on an Android phone is not that
> hard, but most people don't know how to do it). It's called
> "iLegislate." I have it on my iPad and and on my Thinkpad, but I'd like
> it on my phone too, for when I don't want to carry the iPad.

Hi SMS,

I realize you're trying to find something on iOS that isn't already on
Android (which I appreciate because I am too), so I must remind you that an
"app" that is on one platform but not the other isn't what "functionality"
means in this context.

App functionality is what an app *does* that is generally useful.

Since all I care about are facts, I'd be *happy* if iOS actually has one
app functionality that isn't already on Android. Really. I'd be ecstatic. I
own iOS devices too, and I buy phones as gifts for the extended family all
the time, which is all well known in these newsgroups.

I have openly *asked* all iOS users if they can come up with a single app
functionality that is on iOS that isn't already on Android, where what we
get is the classic iOS apologist exclamations of brand names and trademarks
(which is how their brains work) and not underlying functionality of the
device.

Is there a single useful Apple iOS camera capability that isn't already on Android?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/PGxT9K2Qx0U/EsLIKB5MAAAJ>

One of the Apple apologists, Savageduck, even went so far as to claim an
actual add-on camera as the one app functionality that iOS had that Android
didn't have (which only goes to show that the iOS apologists distort facts
in order to claim that they have something, anything, that iOS can't do).

Similarly, both nospam and Jolly Roger constantly claimed that a
now-defunct capability that iOS had way back in iOS version 4.x, which
actually did report the unique celltower ID, was functionality in existing
iOS versions. Again, they both *knew* they were distorting the truth by
unearthing iOS functionality that was deprecated by Apple, but since I
really wanted to find something (anything) that iOS can do that Android
doesn't already do, that I looked it up, only to find they were (as usual),
just making things up (since Apple stopped apps from having that ability to
report the unique cell tower ID *years* ago).

Is there a reason (what is the reason) Apple iOS won't let users get the cell tower ID? (17 Feb 2017)
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/mQ95eG-2Axw/l7e0m4FdDgAJ>

Often, you'll find Jolly Roger (who consistently vies for being arguably
the dumbest iOS apologist along with Lewis and Jamie JK) insist that iOS
has a capability that can only be obtained by jailbreaking.

Now that actually proves my point, which has always been that the
*hardware* for iOS devices is consistently in the top ten of the best of
the top ten hardware out there. Apple has no secret sauce on hardware, but
neither does anyone else. So the hardware, while it changes daily, is about
the same between the devices.

So what is it that so severely limits the functionality on iOS devices?
You tell me.

All I know is that the basic stuff we do all day every day on Android
without even batting an eyelash, is impossible to do on iOS, and while the
iOS apologists *claim* that such things can be done, they never prove it
(because they just make it all up). The only ones who believe them are the
iOS Gullibles, who are too numerous in these two newsgroups to adequately
mention.
What offline iOS app tells you all the programs you've installed since the beginning of time?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/y1dU2F9aKu4/lVfHVvjLBwAJ>

If I recall correctly, after searching for a very (very) long time, someone
did come up with one thing that iOS did that Android didn't already do, but
I forget what it was because I didn't have the time to research it when it
was presented. Bear in mind the iOS apologists just make everything up, so,
you have to check anything they say, as they're wrong almost always (and
they know it - they just prey on the many iOS Gullibles like Erilar, Patty
Winter, Michelle, Jeorg Lorenz, JF Mezei, etc.).

Having said all that by way of background, I'd be ecstatic if the thousands
of people on these newsgroups can find any functionality on iOS that isn't
already on Android.

Looking up what "iLegislate" is all about, we first look at the two sites:
<https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ilegislate/id407848601?mt=8>
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.granicus.iLegislate>

iOS description:
"iLegislate is a government-specific paperless agenda and annotation
application for users of the Granicus Platform & Suites.
iLegislate enables governments to review meeting agendas,
supporting documents, and archived videos over the iPad.
Proven to save staff hours in their pre-meeting workflow while
improving efficiencies, government agencies no longer need to
spend thousands of dollars annually printing, copying, and
binding meeting materials, not to mention the staff costs for
collecting, organizing, and distributing these materials."

Android description:
"iLegislate is a government-specific paperless agenda application
for users of the Granicus Platform & Suites. This solution enables
governments to review meeting agendas, supporting documents, and
archived videos over tablet devices. Proven to save staff hours in
their pre-meeting workflow while improving efficiencies, government
agencies no longer need to spend thousands of dollars annually
printing, copying, and binding meeting materials, not to mention
the staff costs for collecting, organizing, and distributing
these materials."

Hmmmmm.... I don't think this is even close to being a functionality that
is on iOS that isn't on Android, despite the difference between "phone and
tablet" (where that same problem exists for other apps on iOS).

So the question remains open if there is even a single useful app
functionality on iOS that isn't already on Android, since we already know
there is tons of app functionality on Android that iOS devices can't hope
to perform.

[nospam]

In article <ormfd0$apr$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, harry newton

<ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> Since all I care about are facts, I'd be *happy* if iOS actually has one
> app functionality that isn't already on Android. Really. I'd be ecstatic. I
> own iOS devices too, and I buy phones as gifts for the extended family all
> the time, which is all well known in these newsgroups.

bullshit you would.

> I have openly *asked* all iOS users if they can come up with a single app
> functionality that is on iOS that isn't already on Android, where what we
> get is the classic iOS apologist exclamations of brand names and trademarks
> (which is how their brains work) and not underlying functionality of the
> device.

you've been told of *many* things that ios can do that android cannot,
all of which you promptly ignore.

like everything, each platform has advantages and disadvantages.
nothing is perfect, no matter what it is.

the reality is that ios can do some things android can't and android
can do some things ios can't. even windows phone could do things
neither ios nor android could do, but unfortunately not enough to
compete.

pick whichever system best fits your needs. for some people it's
android and for others it's ios.

why do you give a shit what other people choose to use?

> Is there a single useful Apple iOS camera capability that isn't already on
> Android?

quite a bit, actually.

> Similarly, both nospam and Jolly Roger constantly claimed that a
> now-defunct capability that iOS had way back in iOS version 4.x, which
> actually did report the unique celltower ID, was functionality in existing
> iOS versions.

it's not defunct.

> Again, they both *knew* they were distorting the truth by
> unearthing iOS functionality that was deprecated by Apple, but since I
> really wanted to find something (anything) that iOS can do that Android
> doesn't already do, that I looked it up, only to find they were (as usual),
> just making things up (since Apple stopped apps from having that ability to
> report the unique cell tower ID *years* ago).

apple did no such thing, you lying sack of shit.

not only does that functionality exist in ios 10, but you were told
exactly how to do it.

the functionality is almost certainly still in ios 11, but i can't be
bothered to check because you're going to argue no matter what anyone
says or does.

> Now that actually proves my point, which has always been that the
> *hardware* for iOS devices is consistently in the top ten of the best of
> the top ten hardware out there. Apple has no secret sauce on hardware, but
> neither does anyone else. So the hardware, while it changes daily, is about
> the same between the devices.

wrong.

apple has a lot of secret sauce in hardware, unavailable to any other
device maker.

> So what is it that so severely limits the functionality on iOS devices?
> You tell me.

mostly your attitude, along with a significant amount of ignorance and
stupidity.

[harry newton]

He who is Snit said on Wed, 11 Oct 2017 14:08:29 -0700:

> I will say he showed recording voice when I thought he could not and the
> program I used showed speed and not signal strength.

I greatly appreciate that you just showed that you can admit facts.

So that every post of mine *increases* the knowledge level of the group as
a whole, here is a link to the RecMe freeware I used to record the screen
and audio (it's kind of crippleware actually but it does the job of
recording any length video with no watermarks or audio restrictions
whatsoever).

RecMe Free Screen Recorder, MOBZAPP
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mobzapp.recme.free
FAQ -> http://mobzapp.com/recording/faq.html
Support forum -> http://mobzapp.com/recording/forum.html

My version is 2.3.3 (since I never update software unless/until I know I'm
getting something useful to me in the version update).

I would have used something else but my phone is ancient, at Android 4.3,
where I'm told newer versions of Android have much better options for
recording the screen and sounds.

Here is the marketing description:

RecMe Screen Recorder is one of the best screen recorder for your screen
and audio.
The app is free with NO TIME LIMIT, NO WATERMARK, with HD quality, and
works with rooted AND unrooted devices (read instructions below).

The app provides many features and settings to fill all your needs:
[] Root not required: Prior to Android 5.0 you only need to run our startup
tool from your computer to activate screen recording.
[] Produce HD quality videos (up to 60 fps, up to 1080p, 32 Mbits/s
bitrate)
[] Screen recorder with microphone audio
[] Screen recorder with internal audio, or microphone + internal audio
mixed together (Root required, available from Android 4.4)
[] Display front or back camera overlay on your screen while recording (Pro
version)
[] Options for recording countdown and stop when you lock your screen (Pro
version)
[] Image overlay (Pro version)
[] Screen drawing (Pro version)
[] Control your recording from controls widget and from notifications
[] You can pause and resume while you are recording
[] Choose to record to MP4 or MKV video file
[] Many settings to optimize performances and quality

--
Everything I say is fact and is intended to raise your knowledge level.

[harry newton]

He who is nospam said on Wed, 11 Oct 2017 22:36:22 -0400:

> you lying sack of shit.

The group should note exactly how the iOS apologists handle verified facts.
:)

[Snit]

On 10/11/17, 5:06 PM, in article ormbn2$6f8$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry newton"

<ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> He who is Snit said on Wed, 11 Oct 2017 12:08:58 -0700:
>
>> And to be fair to harry he HAS shown that he can do a recording which has
>> the screen, the sound from the Android device, and his talking (or at least
>> heavy breathing as he walks around). Assuming he did not add that later he
>> proved me wrong on that (and I am not accusing him of adding it later). I
>> did not think that was possible on Android... so kudos to him.
>
> I apologize for the annoying breathing sounds in the WiFi Analyzer video,
> as I was climbing multiple sets of stairs because I was ensuring that the
> signal strength would change for each of my many access points (every 3
> decibel drop is half the power!) as I moved around the house.

While it might have been good for you to have better "voice" in that video
it showed you CAN record voice as you show the screen and record the
computer audio. I had not found evidence that you could do so on Android so
was happy to have you show otherwise.

...

>> He also blocked some text but he did not coordinate it with a desktop, nor
>> show where he touched well.
>
> When I discuss Android and iOS functionality, it's always about the mobile
> device all by its itty bitty self.

But do you know of a way to do this on Android. Maybe it exists. Maybe not.

> When I talk about iOS being cripped in device app funcdtionality, it's
> never about Apple requiring the user use a desktop to do the simplest of
> things, and then asking the user to install behemoth bloatware, just to get
> the device to do something useful.

Well, to coordinate with a desktop on a video, such as to make an
instructional video on how to move files back and forth, of course you would
need a desktop as well. :)

[harry newton]

He who is Snit said on Wed, 11 Oct 2017 18:36:15 -0700:

> While it might have been good for you to have better "voice" in that video
> it showed you CAN record voice as you show the screen and record the
> computer audio. I had not found evidence that you could do so on Android so
> was happy to have you show otherwise.

I have never done video before. Video was never needed for this thread, but
you had insisted that video was needed to prove the point. So I learned how
to make a video.

The part I had to learn was to find the best freeware video editor extant,
and then, to figure out how to redact privacy information. I didn't want to
talk because my voice is extremely well known. So I captioned using text.

If there is good Windows or Linux voice obfuscation freeware extant, I can
add voice captions in the future.

I'll research separately what the best voice obfuscation freeware is.
It might be a plugin for audacity for all I know.
<https://screamingbee.com/support/MVPro40/MorphAudacity.aspx>
<https://digicompdiy.wordpress.com/2010/01/27/voice-changers/>
<https://tag.wonderhowto.com/change-voice-audacity/>
etc.

>> When I discuss Android and iOS functionality, it's always about the mobile
>> device all by its itty bitty self.
>
> But do you know of a way to do this on Android. Maybe it exists. Maybe not.

I don't understand that question.

The reason I needed a list of Android and iOS programs is that I was making
a one-to-one mapping for a kid whom we had gotten an iPhone for who was
moving from Android to iOS.

She loved Apple phones but she loved Android app functionality too.

So I had wanted to output the list of Android apps on my phone and the iOS
apps on my iOS devices and combine those lists in a one-to-one mapping,
giving her advice in the edited file as to which to use.

Since I have hundreds of apps on each device, I didn't want to write the
list by hand. It turned out to be trivial to make the list on Android, but
on iOS, the only way that anyone knew was to require an entire computer and
hundreds of megaqbytes of bloatware, just to do what is perhaps the
simplest task a phone could ever be asked to do, which is to output the
list of apps installed, over time, into an editable format.

Since Android is like Linux, there are many possible ways just using the
phone itself to create the list.

Since iOS is basically crippled, there were none.

There's an entire thread on the subject if you need background detail.

What offline iOS app tells you all the programs you've installed since the beginning of time?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/y1dU2F9aKu4/lVfHVvjLBwAJ>

> Well, to coordinate with a desktop on a video, such as to make an
> instructional video on how to move files back and forth, of course you would
> need a desktop as well. :)

I never said a desktop wasn't useful.

I just said that Android can many things (all by itself) that can't be done
on iOS (all by itself).

You have to keep in mind that iTunes is considered synonymous with
bloatware by some, including me (just google itunes & bloatware before you
start arguing with me on that because that's obviously an assessment that
I'm not the first person to make).

Some people love iTunes. In fact, many iOS apologists love iTunes.
It only makes sense because those people deserve iTunes. :)

[Snit]

On 10/12/17, 1:57 AM, in article ornaq3$1hdt$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry

newton" <ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> He who is Snit said on Wed, 11 Oct 2017 18:36:15 -0700:
>
>> While it might have been good for you to have better "voice" in that video
>> it showed you CAN record voice as you show the screen and record the
>> computer audio. I had not found evidence that you could do so on Android so
>> was happy to have you show otherwise.
>
> I have never done video before. Video was never needed for this thread, but
> you had insisted that video was needed to prove the point. So I learned how
> to make a video.
>
> The part I had to learn was to find the best freeware video editor extant,
> and then, to figure out how to redact privacy information. I didn't want to
> talk because my voice is extremely well known. So I captioned using text.

As I said in my video, I would be happy if you had altered your voice. But,
the main point was to see if you could show the screen while we hear the
computer and your voice. It was not about the quality of your voice or how
well produced the video is. I have more experience and I likely have easier
to use tools but they are on the desktop. If I had fully edited that on iOS
that might be a relevant issue... but I did not.

> If there is good Windows or Linux voice obfuscation freeware extant, I can
> add voice captions in the future.
>
> I'll research separately what the best voice obfuscation freeware is.
> It might be a plugin for audacity for all I know.
> <https://screamingbee.com/support/MVPro40/MorphAudacity.aspx>
> <https://digicompdiy.wordpress.com/2010/01/27/voice-changers/>
> <https://tag.wonderhowto.com/change-voice-audacity/>
> etc.

I used ScreenFlow with one of the standard audio filters built into macOS...
cannot even recall which one. The software I use is pretty darn good
(ScreenFlow) but it is not on iOS and thus not relevant here.

>>> When I discuss Android and iOS functionality, it's always about the mobile
>>> device all by its itty bitty self.
>>
>> But do you know of a way to do this on Android. Maybe it exists. Maybe not.
>
> I don't understand that question.

Say you wanted to make a video showing someone how to transfer files to/from
the Android device... to do this you would want to be able to show the
Android device screen, the desktop screen (with the relevant program you are
using), and your voice. You would also want to be able to blur things out
and show where your mouse pointer is as well as where you are touching on
the Android device.

I can do all of those fairly easily, though the touch for the iOS device
would have to be "faked" -- even if not their is no "hover" state to point
to things so THAT would have to be faked (sort of like how I pointed to
where I had blurred things out and the like).

The software I use even has what they call "touch callouts" where I can add
one or more "touch points" and then animate them to an end-point. I am not
really fond of that feature and for single touches I like my method of
having my larger, easier to see mouse pointer move to whichever device I am
using.

This helps keep the viewer focused on what I am talking about. Other methods
could include dimming whichever screen I am not talking about or the like.

Anyway, this is a pretty powerful set of easy-to-use tools, but of course it
is as much about the desktop as the mobile device -- it is largely about how
well they integrate.

> The reason I needed a list of Android and iOS programs is that I was making
> a one-to-one mapping for a kid whom we had gotten an iPhone for who was
> moving from Android to iOS.
>
> She loved Apple phones but she loved Android app functionality too.

I have a cheap, low end Android device running an older version of Android.
The battery was draining in about 4-6 hours. It insisted on giving me FB
notifications even after I removed FB and *two* other programs listed as
being tied to FB *and* on the notification screen told it to STOP. I run
into quirks like that with Android pretty much non-stop... so while I
appreciate how it is more flexible in some ways by being more "desktop-like"
in allowing more configurability, the quirks it has are maddening to me.

Oh, and I have a custom ring-tone for my family. It works about 2/3 of the
time. We have tested this: Phone sitting there, untouched... call from
another phone -- get the right ringtone. Call again. And Again. Do that six
times. On average about two of the six times it will use the "standard" ring
tone and not the custom.

Rebooted and it at least now seems better... but at this point I do not
trust the device at all.

I do have an iPod Touch, and it is a much faster device (also a lot more
expensive). My main use of the Android device is as a phone and to turn on
the Wi-FI hotspot so I can use my Touch on the go.

Oh, and unless I manually set the damned thing on battery saver mode every
time I unplug it, it still often (though not always) drains the battery in a
few hours. Cannot even last a day UNUSED.

I have no issue with people liking Android more. Heck, if I had a higher end
Android device I might like it more. I do get that part of the problems I am
having is the Android device is a low end one... of course it is not going
to compete well with an iPhone or even my iPod Touch.

> So I had wanted to output the list of Android apps on my phone and the iOS
> apps on my iOS devices and combine those lists in a one-to-one mapping,
> giving her advice in the edited file as to which to use.
>
> Since I have hundreds of apps on each device, I didn't want to write the
> list by hand. It turned out to be trivial to make the list on Android, but
> on iOS, the only way that anyone knew was to require an entire computer and
> hundreds of megaqbytes of bloatware, just to do what is perhaps the
> simplest task a phone could ever be asked to do, which is to output the
> list of apps installed, over time, into an editable format.
>
> Since Android is like Linux, there are many possible ways just using the
> phone itself to create the list.
>
> Since iOS is basically crippled, there were none.
>
> There's an entire thread on the subject if you need background detail.
> What offline iOS app tells you all the programs you've installed since the
> beginning of time?
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/y1dU2F9aKu4/lVfHVvjLBwAJ>

Sounds like you want to use your mobile device almost as a desktop
replacement. That is very different from my use. We will end up with
different preferences in, if nothing else, how we use such devices.

>> Well, to coordinate with a desktop on a video, such as to make an
>> instructional video on how to move files back and forth, of course you would
>> need a desktop as well. :)
>
> I never said a desktop wasn't useful.
>
> I just said that Android can many things (all by itself) that can't be done
> on iOS (all by itself).

And that is fine. Where I have an issue with your claims is when you deny
iOS can do ANYTHING that Android can and hold to that even when given
examples, when you claim the hardware is the same even though most sites put
the CPUs in iPhones as being well ahead of the competition, when you insist
that iPhones are not often in the top ten of cameras when your own source
shows 5 of the top 10 cameras it lists as being different iPhones, etc.

You have a strong preference and bias. OK. But try to use reason and logic
and understand how others might see things differently.

I do not have a high end iOS device nor a high end Android device. I do like
how I can have the newest OS for a longer time on iOS (heck, many new
Android devices do not come with the newest) but I have no dog in this
race... I am happy both exist. I am happy there is competition.

> You have to keep in mind that iTunes is considered synonymous with
> bloatware by some, including me (just google itunes & bloatware before you
> start arguing with me on that because that's obviously an assessment that
> I'm not the first person to make).
>
> Some people love iTunes. In fact, many iOS apologists love iTunes.
> It only makes sense because those people deserve iTunes. :)

I think iTunes tries to do too much... music, videos, iOS connection, ties
to Apple music and radio and whatever other offerings (which more and more
it pushes when I just want to get to a podcast). Even worse, it handles some
of these tasks poorly... it is a pretty crappy podcast tool, for example, in
terms of allowing you to sort and select well. And it is far from a great
audiobook tool.

I wish Apple would split it into multiple programs, even if tied together as
a suite.

[Snit]

On 10/11/17, 7:42 PM, in article ormkps$h8g$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry newton"

<ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> He who is Snit said on Wed, 11 Oct 2017 14:08:29 -0700:
>
>> I will say he showed recording voice when I thought he could not and the
>> program I used showed speed and not signal strength.
>
> I greatly appreciate that you just showed that you can admit facts.

I think you will find I, more than most, am happy to admit when I am wrong
or when I am ignorant about something. You have made a bunch of assumptions
about me being an apologist for iOS and, I think, Apple products in general.

Yes, I tend to prefer macOS for many things, but I do not even claim to know
modern Android (nor do I have a high end iOS device... or a high end macOS
device, really).

> So that every post of mine *increases* the knowledge level of the group as
> a whole, here is a link to the RecMe freeware I used to record the screen
> and audio (it's kind of crippleware actually but it does the job of
> recording any length video with no watermarks or audio restrictions
> whatsoever).
>
> RecMe Free Screen Recorder, MOBZAPP
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mobzapp.recme.free
> FAQ -> http://mobzapp.com/recording/faq.html
> Support forum -> http://mobzapp.com/recording/forum.html
>
> My version is 2.3.3 (since I never update software unless/until I know I'm
> getting something useful to me in the version update).
>
> I would have used something else but my phone is ancient, at Android 4.3,
> where I'm told newer versions of Android have much better options for
> recording the screen and sounds.
>
> Here is the marketing description:
>
> RecMe Screen Recorder is one of the best screen recorder for your screen
> and audio.
> The app is free with NO TIME LIMIT, NO WATERMARK, with HD quality, and
> works with rooted AND unrooted devices (read instructions below).
>
> The app provides many features and settings to fill all your needs:
> [] Root not required: Prior to Android 5.0 you only need to run our startup
> tool from your computer to activate screen recording.

So requires a desktop. Interesting.

> [] Produce HD quality videos (up to 60 fps, up to 1080p, 32 Mbits/s
> bitrate)
> [] Screen recorder with microphone audio
> [] Screen recorder with internal audio, or microphone + internal audio
> mixed together (Root required, available from Android 4.4)

Ah, so is your device rooted?

> [] Display front or back camera overlay on your screen while recording (Pro
> version)
> [] Options for recording countdown and stop when you lock your screen (Pro
> version)
> [] Image overlay (Pro version)
> [] Screen drawing (Pro version)
> [] Control your recording from controls widget and from notifications
> [] You can pause and resume while you are recording
> [] Choose to record to MP4 or MKV video file
> [] Many settings to optimize performances and quality


--

[Frank Slootweg]

harry newton <ha...@is.invalid> wrote:
[...]

> Not only was Snit completely fooled, but so was nospam, which is surprising
> because nospam is generally not as utterly incomprehensibly stupid as Lewis
> and Jolly Roger are (both of whom were also fooled) and as dumb as Frank
> Slootweg, who was also fooled (Frank is just a highly emotional
> extremely-fact-challenged user though - and not an iOS apologist like the
> others are).

BARF!

So what *did* those posts of you mean, where you compliment or/and
thank me!? Were they just as "highly emotional" and
"extremely-fact-challenged" as your above inane rant!?

But more to the point: I can't believe (well, I can, but it continues
to amaze me) that you're *that* stupid for flaming *me* for my responses
in this thread.

If anything, I was supporting *your* points, i.e. Snit claimed that
some things in his video could not be done on Android/a_PC and I
explained that - AFAIK - these things *can* be done on Android/a_PC.
Partly based on my input, Snit conceded (Good on him!) these points.

But instead of thanking me, 'harry - not quite so logical - newton',
rewards me with the above quoted "highly emotional" and
"extremely-fact-challenged" response.

BTW, you owe me a new laptop for posting such a hilarious thing
without a beverage alert.

[...]

[Snit]

On 10/11/17, 7:49 PM, in article orml8j$hou$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry newton"

Have not tested any of these, and not sure any tells you direct Wi-Fi signal
strength, but they tell you many other stats including the speed of the
network which is generally more important:

<https://mashtips.com/best-iphone-wifi-tools-network-analyzer/>

Now if you need that specific stat would have to check to see if any of
these have it. Maybe they do not. If so then I do not think iOS has a tool
to do this... BUT, your claim was Apple does not allow it. Do you have ANY
evidence to back that?

[harry newton]

He who is Snit said on Thu, 12 Oct 2017 10:32:55 -0700:

> As I said in my video, I would be happy if you had altered your voice.

I have a current thread on how to obfuscate voice on the Windows newsgroup.
What is the canonical voice-altering (obfuscation) freeware on Windows?

My voice is 100% recognizable to the many people who know me.
Just like this one is (8.22 MB audio MP3 file):
https://files.fm/u/7c6qkc22

So I have to make it unrecognizable. Here's my first attempt, which isn't
all that good (yet) at making that voice unrecognizable. 11.7MB MP3
https://ufile.io/k6s79

I used the suggested GoldWave software to obfuscate that voice recording:
<http://www.goldwave.com/release.php/>

But in hind sight, GoldWave wasn't much different from Audacity freeware:
<https://sourceforge.net/projects/audacity/>

> the main point was to see if you could show the screen while we hear the
> computer and your voice. It was not about the quality of your voice or how
> well produced the video is. I have more experience and I likely have easier
> to use tools but they are on the desktop. If I had fully edited that on iOS
> that might be a relevant issue... but I did not.

I have to admit I'm impressed that you're different than the other iOS
apologists in that you seem to have the capacity to comprehend facts.

So I can't really call you an iOS apologist since you *can* handle facts.

The others *still* can't comprehend that what you (and they) had *thought*
was signal strength, is decidedly not (it was just a mere speedtest). I had
known that all along but I had to wait until I could make the recording
that you so very much wanted to see.

> I used ScreenFlow with one of the standard audio filters built into macOS...
> cannot even recall which one. The software I use is pretty darn good
> (ScreenFlow) but it is not on iOS and thus not relevant here.

The recording, to me, was not necessary to prove the point, since my point
was pretty simply obvious (it's in the subject line for example).

But for some reason, you greatly cared about the video recording. I didn't
even know that recording on Android was supposed to be a problem since it
was that easy for me (I had set it up long ago so all I did was press the
RecMe button to start and stop the recording and then slide the file over
to Windows after mounting my Android phone on the Windows file system over
the WiFi LAN because my USB port is kaput).

The only reason it took me a while to upload the video recording was that I
didn't know how to edit the video to redact the SSID and BSSID information.
It turns out that the technique of using Shotcut freeware to place XXXX
text of the same font color and background color did the trick.

In the first recording (Fritz), the grandkids were making a fuss in the
background, so that's mostly why I added the sound track. In the second
recording (WiFi Analyzer), I didn't touch the sound track (I could easily
have removed it but I left it since you seemed to care so very much about
it). As you can see from the screenshots, I have *plenty* of other WiFi
utils which I *wish* were available to me on iOS.

Remember, I have both iOS and Android and I just want them both to be
functional. I don't like one or the other.

I just want both iOS and Android to do things for me.

> Say you wanted to make a video showing someone how to transfer files to/from
> the Android device... to do this you would want to be able to show the
> Android device screen, the desktop screen (with the relevant program you are
> using), and your voice. You would also want to be able to blur things out
> and show where your mouse pointer is as well as where you are touching on
> the Android device.

I don't have this need so I will just mention that there are *plenty* of
programs which interface the desktop to the mobile phone. I'm not going
down that road because it's not something I ever want to do.

All I want I already have, which is to mount the file system seamlessly
with the desktop file system. Seamless file system mounting is all I care
about when interfacing a desktop to a mobile device.

Your desktop-to-mobile needs may/will differ.

> The software I use even has what they call "touch callouts" where I can add
> one or more "touch points" and then animate them to an end-point. I am not
> really fond of that feature and for single touches I like my method of
> having my larger, easier to see mouse pointer move to whichever device I am
> using.

You have to realize that was my very first video.

If I was in the habit of making videos, I'd learn how to highlight what the
user is doing on the mobile device. I don't have that need, so I won't
learn how to do it as the method I used (of adding text boxes to the video)
is "good enough" for government work.

But if you have desktop software that you can leverage to the group
(generally that means freeware that is cross platform, like Shotcut is),
then by all means let folks know.

The whole point is to always increase the tribal knowledge of the group as
a whole with every post.

> Oh, and I have a custom ring-tone for my family. It works about 2/3 of the
> time. We have tested this: Phone sitting there, untouched... call from
> another phone -- get the right ringtone. Call again. And Again. Do that six
> times. On average about two of the six times it will use the "standard" ring
> tone and not the custom.

I'm not sure what you mean by the "ringtone works about 2/3 of the time" as
I also have custom ringtones for my entire family.

They work just fine for me, each one saying "Jane is calling", "Bill is
calling", "Susan is calling", etc.

Since I *always* increase the tribal knowledge of the group with each of my
threads (knowledge and leverage is my gig), I long ago already wrote up how
to do that on Android using freeware so that anyone can do it.
Custom "jane is calling" ringtones using Songify & Ringdroid
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/Ncs-dfqMQxk/g3a9BTY9AAAJ>

As that original post says, the freeware I've used are Songify:
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.smule.songify>
And Ringdroid:
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ringdroid>

The great thing about freeware is that it does everything I need, and, it
is easily leveraged so that everyone else can do whatever I can do.

> Rebooted and it at least now seems better... but at this point I do not
> trust the device at all.

Heh heh ... I have all Google Framework services turned off, Google Play
disabled, all GPS spying turned off, all advertising IDs completely wiped
off the Android phone, etc. (which is yet *another* set of things you just
can't do with iOS but which is *easy* to do with Android), and impossible
to do on iOS

. Remove the Google Play account on Android (versus iCloud account on iOS)
. Remove the Advertising ID on Android (it's impossible on iOS)

I already can tell you what the iOS apologists will say about the above,
since we've had the discussion in the past on this very newsgroup where the
iOS apologists are again dead wrong on all accounts.

> I do have an iPod Touch, and it is a much faster device (also a lot more
> expensive). My main use of the Android device is as a phone and to turn on
> the Wi-FI hotspot so I can use my Touch on the go.

I have plenty of iPods too. I haven't looked it up yet, but since I listen
to hours-long documentaries on the iPod that I've downloaded off of
YouTube, I wonder if you know, offhand, how to skip forward in an MP3 file
on an iPod?

BTW, in the interest of always increasing the knowledge level of the group
with every post, to download your video off of Youtube was as easy as
running this command:
youtube-dl.exe -x --audio-format mp3 --audio-quality 0 https://youtu.be/7QaABa6DFIo

> Oh, and unless I manually set the damned thing on battery saver mode every
> time I unplug it, it still often (though not always) drains the battery in a
> few hours. Cannot even last a day UNUSED.

That's what I love about phones like mine which have a removable battery.

I have an entire thread on all the ways you can charge batteries, where I
can charge a half dozen (if I want) simultaneously for my Android phone.

None of that functionality is possible for my Apple iOS devices.

> I have no issue with people liking Android more. Heck, if I had a higher end
> Android device I might like it more. I do get that part of the problems I am
> having is the Android device is a low end one... of course it is not going
> to compete well with an iPhone or even my iPod Touch.

I misread you in that I thought you were a typical iOS apologist who can't
comprehend facts. You didn't at first comprehend the facts, but you seem to
be able to actually comprehend facts.

It's therefore important for me to bother to tell you that you have it
wrong that you keep assuming that I don't like iOS and I like Android.

It's not that I like or don't like either one. I just know facts about
them. They are just cold hard facts. It's not a like or not like issue with
me as it is with the iOS apologists who are so threatened by facts that,
even now, they can't comprehend the simple facts that you seem to have
comprehended in this thread alone.

All I do is speak facts about iOS and facts about Android.
Both are great. Both suck.

It's not a matter of whether I like one or the other any more than it's a
matter that I like one of my kids or grandkids more than one or the other.

Some of my kids play football (e.g., the boys) and some of them can't
(e.g., the girls). It's not that I like the boys any more or less because
they can play football better than the girls. It's just a fact that they
do.

It's the same with iOS and Android.

It's just a fact that there's no known app functionality on iOS that
Android doesn't already have, and that Android has app functionality that
iOS doesn't have (e.g., the ability to graph Wi-Fi signal strength over
time).

The iOS apologists hate facts, so that factual statement doesn't sit well
with them - but it's just a cold hard fact just like it's a cold hard fact
that the tooth fairy doesn't exist.

The iOS apologists keep asking me to prove there's no tooth fairy, and I
tell them to just show me some functionality that is inherently on Apple
iOS mobile devices that isn't already on Android mobile devices (all by
their itty bitty selves) - and all they can come up with is meaningless
brand names and trademarks - which just shows that they can't comprehend
even the question since they can't think outside of the box Apple Marketing
built for them to live inside.

We've had that discussion a zillion times though where the iOS apologists
can't handle facts, so let's not go there again unless you can claim a
single functionality that unjailbroken Apple iOS mobile devices have all by
their itty bitty selves that Android devices don't already have.

Notice once you jailbreak an iOS device, you gain tremendous functionality,
so it's not the hardware that is crippling the app functionality on iOS
devices. The hardware on Apple mobile devices is on par with the best
hardware on Android devices (they fluctuate but overall they're all about
the same, which again, we've proven time and again where only the Apple
apologists don't understand that cold hard honest fact.)

HINT: Almost all the flame wars throughout Usenet history are initiated,
propagated, and perpetuated by the Apple apologists simply because they
just can't handle cold hard facts. It's just how they're wired.

You seem to be different from the iOS apologists.
You seem to be able to actually comprehend facts.

> Sounds like you want to use your mobile device almost as a desktop
> replacement. That is very different from my use. We will end up with
> different preferences in, if nothing else, how we use such devices.

I don't think that's a fair assessment since a desktop and a mobile device
are, essentially, two different beasts.

I just want my mobile device to do things, many of which aren't scripted
already for me by some marketing guy trying to make a buck off of me.

Remember, turn off all Google spyware that I know about, so I don't even
own a Google account on my Android phones. I don't have an advertising ID.
I search, play, and even download YouTube videos on my Android device
without *ever* seeing an advertisement ... oh ..

Oh, that reminds me. Here's *another* thing that is trivial on Android and
impossible on iOS devices.
. Search and watch YouTube video for free without ever seeing an ad
. Downloading the video or extracting the audio from the same GUI
And, I think (but I have to doublecheck if iOS can't do this)
. Rotate the screen based on app choices alone (software switch)
. Disable the Internet (not just cellular data) by app (software switch)

You see? Very many things that are trivial to do on Android are simply
impossible on iOS.

I already know what the iOS apologists will say because they just make
everything up, which is that "I" don't know how to do it - and yet - nobody
on the iOS newsgroups can do the things I bring up.

That's exactly what *this* thread is all about.
If you could get iOS to graph WiFi signal strength over time, you'd have
shown it to me by now.

The difference between you and the iOS apologists (nospam, Jolly Roger,
Lewis, JF Mezei, etc. is that they simply make up the fictional iOS
functionality. You did too, but you were simply mislead.

As the saying goes, unintended ignorance can be fixed but purposeful deceit
can't be fixed. The iOS apologists knowingly make up fictional iOS
capabilities that never existed. You don't seem to be doing that.

The iOS apologists make up fictional iOS functionality.

Bear in mind that not every iOS Usenet poster is an iOS apologists.
For example, Michelle, Patty Winter, Erilar, Poutnik, etc., are not iOS
apologists. They're just iOS users.

Not only do iOS apologists make up fictional iOS functionality, but they
also constantly insist that the absence of any proof that iOS can't do so
many things doesn't mean it can't do it. Um. OK. How do they what me to
prove that the tooth fairy doesn't exist?

The iOS apologists' *entire* fictional iOS functionality argument is based
completely on the "tooth fairy" defense.

> And that is fine. Where I have an issue with your claims is when you deny
> iOS can do ANYTHING that Android can and hold to that even when given
> examples, when you claim the hardware is the same even though most sites put
> the CPUs in iPhones as being well ahead of the competition, when you insist
> that iPhones are not often in the top ten of cameras when your own source
> shows 5 of the top 10 cameras it lists as being different iPhones, etc.

Every time we have gone down this route of "examples" of "funcdtionality"
that iOS reputedly has that Android doesn't have, I have to spend time and
energy refuting the claims, since all the iOS people can do is talk about
meaningless brand names like "airdrop" and "continuity", neither of which
is the iOS device "all by its itty bitty self" anyway.

I never once said that Apple doesn't have a walled garden-ecosystem when it
comes to working with Mac desktops and Apple mobile devices (but then try
to extend that to Linux and watch what happens).

What I have often asserted is that nobody has yet ever shown a single app
functionality on the iOS device (all by its itty bitty self) that isn't
already on Android.

Name just one and don't name a silly meaningless brand name.
Name the *functionality* that the brand name or trademark is "doing".

I'll show you that the functionality you name is already on Android.

The logic is inescapably simple - where all the iOS apologists can do is
regurgitate meaningless marketing brand names (which is the only way their
feeble brains can operate).

Just name a single functionality.... just one ... that's all it takes (and
that's all I have the energy for to refute ... so pick your best one ...

Name a single app functionality that is on any current iOS device that
isn't already on any current Android device.

HINT: I already know the marketing bs path the iOS apologists will go on,
so, I want *you* to name the app functionality. Not the idiot apologists.

Remember, we're always talking:
1. The device ... all by its itty bitty self (not a desktop or cloud)
2. Not jailbroken or rooted (since that's the entire point)
3. App functionality - which means it reports something useful to the user
...optionally...
4. Preferably free (so that we can test it - but it's OK if it's not free)

> You have a strong preference and bias. OK. But try to use reason and logic
> and understand how others might see things differently.

You make the mistake again and again.
I only speak facts.

It's not that I like my female grandchildren better or worse because the
boys play football better than they do.

It's just a fact that the boys can do things that the girls just can't do.

If there was something the girls could do that the boys can't do, like
making babies, that's also a fact.

So it's a fact, for example, that iOS is fundamentally different with
respect to access to the file system than is Android.

That's just a fact.
Just like it's a fact that girls can make babies and boys can't.

But in general, boys can do everything that girls can do (except biological
things) while there is plenty that girls can't do (like play football and
win against really formidable other boys).

It's just a fact.

In the same sense, it's just a fact that Android apps can functionally do
more than iOS apps can, and it's just a fact that nobody yet has shown any
app functionality that non-jailbroken Apple mobile devices can do all by
their itty bitty selves that isn't already available on Android devices.

If you can name a fact of what things girls inherently can do (all by their
itty bitty selves) that boys inherently can't do, then I'm all ears (other
than stuff related to making and feeding babies).

Likewise, if you can name a fact of what iOS apps can do that Android apps
don't already do ... just name one iOS app functionality ... and I'll show
you how Android can do it (since we've been down this path so very many
times). Don't name brand names or trademarks and don't do ecosystem stuff.
I never was talking about the ecosystem since that's locked up on purpose
by Apple and it doesn't work outside the ecosystem so it's not the real
world.

Just name a single app functionality that *you* can do with your itty bitty
iOS device that I can also do on my itty bitty iOS device that I can't also
do on my itty bitty Android device.

Name just one.

> I do not have a high end iOS device nor a high end Android device.

I have iPads and Android phones, all of which are old.
I buy iPhones but I give them as gifts to kids who don't live with me so I
don't always have access to iPhones but I always have access to iPads.

> I do like
> how I can have the newest OS for a longer time on iOS (heck, many new
> Android devices do not come with the newest) but I have no dog in this
> race... I am happy both exist. I am happy there is competition.

You have to realize that I know iOS users better than they know themselves,
so I'm not surprised you're bamboozled by the mere number line
hallucinations that *all* iOS users seem to be mesmerized by.

Remember, my five year old Android phone stuck forever on Android 4.3 has
plenty of app functionality that my iPads on the latest iOS can't hope to
have.

For the iOS users, they're stuck in this hallucination that a simple
ever-changing number line of iOS release versions is somehow (magically?)
imparting some kind of mysterious app functionality.

C'mon. Slap yourself awake. Having a never ending series of numberline
releases of iOS gives you *zero* additional functionality over Android.

Functionalty is not a number line. If iOS 10.0 were named iOS 10,000.0, the
iOS user would *feel* updated - but it would be the very same iOS.

Don't be fooled by a never-ending series of meaningless updates.
That's a very clever marketing trick that Apple successfullly uses on
almost all its customers - so I grant you that it's clever that people
*feel* better by having numbers constantly tick upward on their iOS
devices.

But if we limit our discussion to functionality, your *next* iOS device
still won't have the app functionality that an Android device of five years
ago had.

I realize this is a hard fact for you to swallow, so it may actually be
impossible for me to explain to you well enough for you to comprehend that
you're all mesmerized by a number line. Apple knows its customers very
well. They know the customer *loves* the number line!

Look at the device functionality ... not the number line version please.

> I think iTunes tries to do too much... music, videos, iOS connection, ties
> to Apple music and radio and whatever other offerings (which more and more
> it pushes when I just want to get to a podcast). Even worse, it handles some
> of these tasks poorly... it is a pretty crappy podcast tool, for example, in
> terms of allowing you to sort and select well. And it is far from a great
> audiobook tool.

Don't even get me started on (desktop) iTunes please.

And anyway, since we're limiting this app functionality discussion to the
itty bitty device, the (iOS) iTunes app that comes with the mobile device
isn't the same thing as the desktop thing of the same name anyway.

So iTunes (either iOS or desktop) plays no role when we discuss mobile
device app functionality.

> I wish Apple would split it into multiple programs, even if tied together as
> a suite.

Thank God they got rid of Quicktime, where it was funny to read over the
years all of the iOS apologists' insistences that it was "necessary" but
let's not go there again as we beat that horse dead long ago.

(desktop) iTunes is an abomination and besides, this discussion is about
iOS app functionality, not about desktop functionality or proprietary
ecosystem functionality which never works in the real world.

--
I commend you for being of the rare few here who can comprehend facts.

[harry newton]

He who is harry newton said on Thu, 12 Oct 2017 22:58:30 +0000 (UTC):

> I have plenty of iPods too. I haven't looked it up yet, but since I listen
> to hours-long documentaries on the iPod that I've downloaded off of
> YouTube, I wonder if you know, offhand, how to skip forward in an MP3 file
> on an iPod?
>
> BTW, in the interest of always increasing the knowledge level of the group
> with every post, to download your video off of Youtube was as easy as
> running this command:
> youtube-dl.exe -x --audio-format mp3 --audio-quality 0 https://youtu.be/7QaABa6DFIo

ooospps....I inadvertently mixed in Android & Windows functionality so I'll
clarify below.

To be clear, I search and play youtube videos on Android and *never* have I
even once ever seen an advertisement on Android when watching youtube
videos ... and I download the youtube (or other site) video or the audio
using the same Youtube-like search/play/download app on Android. So, on
Android, one app does it all, and never shows advertisements, ever.

However, on Windows, it takes two apps to do what takes only one app on
Android (and no one app on iOS can do what that one app on Android does).

On Windows, one app (e.g., youtube-dl.exe) is used to download either the
Youtube Audio or the Youtube video, and another app (e.g., VLC) is used to
play what it downloaded.

Here's the youtube-dl.exe command I used for downloading your entire video
on Windows as an MP4 file:
youtube-dl.exe -f 18 https://youtu.be/7QaABa6DFIo

Here's the youtube-dl.exe command I use to download just the audio from
hours-long documentaries to put on my iPods.

youtube-dl.exe -x --audio-format mp3 --audio-quality 0 https://youtu.be/7QaABa6DFIo

I mount my iPod onto my Windows (or Linux) machine using SharePod freeware,
where I just slide the hours-long documentaries over from the desktop to
the iPod.

If anyone knows how to *skip* to, say, the 30-minute mark on a two-hour
long documenary on an iPod, that would be useful. Of course I can split the
file in 10-minute pieces if I wanted to, but I was hoping the iPod could
jump forward within a single MP3 file.

Can the iPod do that?
If so, how?

[harry newton]

He who is Snit said on Thu, 12 Oct 2017 11:50:00 -0700:

> Have not tested any of these, and not sure any tells you direct Wi-Fi signal
> strength, but they tell you many other stats including the speed of the
> network which is generally more important:
>
> <https://mashtips.com/best-iphone-wifi-tools-network-analyzer/>
>
> Now if you need that specific stat would have to check to see if any of
> these have it. Maybe they do not. If so then I do not think iOS has a tool
> to do this... BUT, your claim was Apple does not allow it. Do you have ANY
> evidence to back that?

C'mon snit.

Let's be honest with each other.
The SUBJECT line is about Wi-Fi signal strength, which is measured in
decibels, and the subject line is specifically about line graphs over time.

If I had wanted the subject line to be about speed tests, or some other
metric, then I would have made the subject about speed tests.

Since speed tests are not something that is any different on Android versus
iOS, it's not a matter for debate here - unless you're claiming that iOS
speedtests are somehow functionally better than are Android speedtests -
which I don't think you want to claim (and neither do I).

Suffice to say I have all the network analyzer tools on my iPads that I can
have as the lack of network analysis tools on iOS has also been the subject
of numerous threads - but that's not the topic here.

I didn't read it in depth, but I think it was covered here, for example:
What free apps do you find useful on *your* iPad, in general?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/grNpcvOFaOA/Q8Pk-KilbEoJ>

Please remember I've read almost every post in the iOS and Android
newsgroups in the past few years, so there's not much that we haven't
covered already.

To always add to the tribal knowledge, just use these links I made long ago
for thousands of newsgrpoups in order to increase the capabilities of the
users as public service:
http://tinyurl.com/comp-mobile-android
http://tinyurl.com/comp-mobile-ipad
http://tinyurl.com/misc-phone-mobile-iphone
etc.

[nospam]

In article <oros2l$aah$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, harry newton

<ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

>
> > Rebooted and it at least now seems better... but at this point I do not
> > trust the device at all.
>
> Heh heh ... I have all Google Framework services turned off, Google Play
> disabled, all GPS spying turned off, all advertising IDs completely wiped
> off the Android phone, etc.

which means a lot of functionality is void.

you keep yapping about how much more that android can do, then you
disable most of it.

> (which is yet *another* set of things you just
> can't do with iOS but which is *easy* to do with Android), and impossible
> to do on iOS

if you think disabling all of that prevents being tracked, you're an
ignorant fool.

> . Remove the Google Play account on Android (versus iCloud account on iOS)
> . Remove the Advertising ID on Android (it's impossible on iOS)

so what? the advertising id on ios does not work the same way as on
android, so removing it is not necessary.

> I already can tell you what the iOS apologists will say about the above,
> since we've had the discussion in the past on this very newsgroup where the
> iOS apologists are again dead wrong on all accounts.

you refuse to understand how anything works, plus you think that doing
all of that idiocy keeps you from being tracked. it doesn't. actually,
it does the *reverse* of what you intend.

> > I do have an iPod Touch, and it is a much faster device (also a lot more
> > expensive). My main use of the Android device is as a phone and to turn on
> > the Wi-FI hotspot so I can use my Touch on the go.
>
> I have plenty of iPods too. I haven't looked it up yet, but since I listen
> to hours-long documentaries on the iPod that I've downloaded off of
> YouTube, I wonder if you know, offhand, how to skip forward in an MP3 file
> on an iPod?

that's trivial. several ways, in fact.

> > Oh, and unless I manually set the damned thing on battery saver mode every
> > time I unplug it, it still often (though not always) drains the battery in a
> > few hours. Cannot even last a day UNUSED.
>
> That's what I love about phones like mine which have a removable battery.
>
> I have an entire thread on all the ways you can charge batteries, where I
> can charge a half dozen (if I want) simultaneously for my Android phone.
>
> None of that functionality is possible for my Apple iOS devices.

plenty of android phones have internal batteries.

> > I have no issue with people liking Android more. Heck, if I had a higher end
> > Android device I might like it more. I do get that part of the problems I am
> > having is the Android device is a low end one... of course it is not going
> > to compete well with an iPhone or even my iPod Touch.
>
> I misread you in that I thought you were a typical iOS apologist who can't
> comprehend facts. You didn't at first comprehend the facts, but you seem to
> be able to actually comprehend facts.
>
> It's therefore important for me to bother to tell you that you have it
> wrong that you keep assuming that I don't like iOS and I like Android.

you clearly despise ios and refuse to learn how to do the things you
claim you want to do, solely so you can rant about how ios is inferior.

> It's not that I like or don't like either one. I just know facts about
> them. They are just cold hard facts. It's not a like or not like issue with
> me as it is with the iOS apologists who are so threatened by facts that,
> even now, they can't comprehend the simple facts that you seem to have
> comprehended in this thread alone.

you know next to nothing about ios and only slightly more than that
about android.

> It's not a matter of whether I like one or the other any more than it's a
> matter that I like one of my kids or grandkids more than one or the other.
>
> Some of my kids play football (e.g., the boys) and some of them can't
> (e.g., the girls). It's not that I like the boys any more or less because
> they can play football better than the girls. It's just a fact that they
> do.

so you're sexist too.

> It's the same with iOS and Android.

no it isn't.

> It's just a fact that there's no known app functionality on iOS that
> Android doesn't already have, and that Android has app functionality that
> iOS doesn't have (e.g., the ability to graph Wi-Fi signal strength over
> time).

nonsense.

>
> > Sounds like you want to use your mobile device almost as a desktop
> > replacement. That is very different from my use. We will end up with
> > different preferences in, if nothing else, how we use such devices.
>
> I don't think that's a fair assessment since a desktop and a mobile device
> are, essentially, two different beasts.

yet you keep trying to compare the two.

> I just want my mobile device to do things, many of which aren't scripted
> already for me by some marketing guy trying to make a buck off of me.

so what if they do?

> Remember, turn off all Google spyware that I know about, so I don't even
> own a Google account on my Android phones. I don't have an advertising ID.
> I search, play, and even download YouTube videos on my Android device
> without *ever* seeing an advertisement ... oh ..

which means even the simplest things are now a convoluted process.

> Oh, that reminds me. Here's *another* thing that is trivial on Android and
> impossible on iOS devices.
> . Search and watch YouTube video for free without ever seeing an ad

trivial, and it was explained to you.

> . Downloading the video or extracting the audio from the same GUI
> And, I think (but I have to doublecheck if iOS can't do this)

also easy, and it was explained to you.

> . Rotate the screen based on app choices alone (software switch)

what does that even mean?

> . Disable the Internet (not just cellular data) by app (software switch)

airplane mode.

> You see? Very many things that are trivial to do on Android are simply
> impossible on iOS.

there are also many things that are trivial to do on ios that are
impossible on android.

pick whatever best fits your needs.

> I already know what the iOS apologists will say because they just make
> everything up, which is that "I" don't know how to do it - and yet - nobody
> on the iOS newsgroups can do the things I bring up.

not only can they do it, but they explained it to you.

you want no part of it.

> Just name a single functionality.... just one ... that's all it takes (and
> that's all I have the energy for to refute ... so pick your best one ...
>
> Name a single app functionality that is on any current iOS device that
> isn't already on any current Android device.

it's been done, and each time you *ignore* what's listed, or you fail
to understand what it means and go off on some lunatic rant.

[nospam]

In article <orot03$bfl$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, harry newton

<ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> If anyone knows how to *skip* to, say, the 30-minute mark on a two-hour
> long documenary on an iPod, that would be useful. Of course I can split the
> file in 10-minute pieces if I wanted to, but I was hoping the iPod could
> jump forward within a single MP3 file.
>
> Can the iPod do that?

yes

[Snit]

On 10/12/17, 4:23 PM, in article orothd$c2n$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry newton"

<ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> He who is Snit said on Thu, 12 Oct 2017 11:50:00 -0700:
>
>> Have not tested any of these, and not sure any tells you direct Wi-Fi signal
>> strength, but they tell you many other stats including the speed of the
>> network which is generally more important:
>>
>> <https://mashtips.com/best-iphone-wifi-tools-network-analyzer/>
>>
>> Now if you need that specific stat would have to check to see if any of
>> these have it. Maybe they do not. If so then I do not think iOS has a tool
>> to do this... BUT, your claim was Apple does not allow it. Do you have ANY
>> evidence to back that?
>
> C'mon snit.
>
> Let's be honest with each other.

I am honest... but keep in mind how you have presented yourself: insisting
that there are NO benefits to iOS. It is a very dishonest and biased
position for you to take.

Again, does not mean I am saying iOS is better at everything or has no
weaknesses -- of course it does -- but I realize there are pros and cons.
You prefer Android and cannot see where it has ANY weakness compared to iOS.

> The SUBJECT line is about Wi-Fi signal strength, which is measured in
> decibels, and the subject line is specifically about line graphs over time.
>
> If I had wanted the subject line to be about speed tests, or some other
> metric, then I would have made the subject about speed tests.
>
> Since speed tests are not something that is any different on Android versus
> iOS, it's not a matter for debate here - unless you're claiming that iOS
> speedtests are somehow functionally better than are Android speedtests -
> which I don't think you want to claim (and neither do I).
>
> Suffice to say I have all the network analyzer tools on my iPads that I can
> have as the lack of network analysis tools on iOS has also been the subject
> of numerous threads - but that's not the topic here.
>
> I didn't read it in depth, but I think it was covered here, for example:
> What free apps do you find useful on *your* iPad, in general?

I do not have an iPad.

> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/grNpcvOFaOA/Q8Pk-KilbEoJ>
>
> Please remember I've read almost every post in the iOS and Android
> newsgroups in the past few years, so there's not much that we haven't
> covered already.

But you demonstrate there is a LOT you do not understand.

> To always add to the tribal knowledge, just use these links I made long ago
> for thousands of newsgrpoups in order to increase the capabilities of the
> users as public service:
> http://tinyurl.com/comp-mobile-android
> http://tinyurl.com/comp-mobile-ipad
> http://tinyurl.com/misc-phone-mobile-iphone
> etc.

Oh, links to threads. Not interested and did not even click them all.

[harry newton]

He who is Snit said on Thu, 12 Oct 2017 10:53:51 -0700:

>> I greatly appreciate that you just showed that you can admit facts.
>
> I think you will find I, more than most, am happy to admit when I am wrong
> or when I am ignorant about something. You have made a bunch of assumptions
> about me being an apologist for iOS and, I think, Apple products in general.

I agree that I had you pegged wrong.

Unlike the iOS apologists nospam, Jolly Roger, Lewis, etc., you can
actually comprehend facts.

When I originally opened this thread, I knew *exactly* how the iOS
apologists would respond because I knew they can't comprehend facts.

None of those Apple apologists will ever be able to comprehend facts.
But you seem to be different - which was the only surprise in this thread.
I've been talking about you over on the Windows newsgroup, where I had been
planning this thread for two weeks.

The main purpose of this thread was just to prove beyond a shadow of a
doubt that the iOS apologists can't comprehend facts about iOS.

They call them "lies" or "trolls" but they just can't comprehend facts
about iOS.

You seem to be able to comprehend facts about iOS so that was a surprise to
me, especially after I first saw your video and I knew it would be child's
play to prove that you were dead wrong the moment I first saw the video.

Had I known you could actually comprehend facts, I wouldn't have bothered
to spend the time and effort it took to find and learn and use Shotcut to
edit the video I had recorded long ago on Android of the functionality you
said in your video was impossible on Android.

So, while it's no surprise at all that the iOS apologists constantly make
up fictional iOS functionality - it *was* a surprise to me that you could
comprehend facts that proved otherwise.

Therefore, you're not an iOS apologists.
Neither is David Empson, for that matter.

You and he both can comprehend facts.
The iOS apologists have proven time and again that they can't comprehend
any facts about iOS.

Why?
You tell me why.

> Yes, I tend to prefer macOS for many things, but I do not even claim to know
> modern Android (nor do I have a high end iOS device... or a high end macOS
> device, really).

I use all the operating systems just like I play with all my grandkids.
Some can play football. Some can't. That's just a fact.
It's a fact that some can do everything that the others can do, and it's a
fact that some can't do what the others can do.

Those are just facts.
It doesn't mean I like one more than the other.

On this newsgroup, it seems that if you state facts about iOS, then it is
called a "lie" or a "troll" simply because you stated a cold hard fact that
the iOS apologists don't like.

Why do the iOS apologists call a fact about iOS a lie?
I don't know. You tell me.

>> The app provides many features and settings to fill all your needs:
>> [] Root not required: Prior to Android 5.0 you only need to run our startup
>> tool from your computer to activate screen recording.
>
> So requires a desktop. Interesting.

Note that I used RecMe on Android where I *never* used any desktop to
record the video. I simply used the desktop to *edit* the video.

But I'm on Android 4.3 and I think everything changed in Android 4.4 with
respect to screen recording and then again with Android 5.0.

So all I can say emphatically is that I downloaded RecMe and ran it and it
worked for me on my specific Android 4.3 phone but I can't say anything
more about other Android versions because I never tested it with them.

> Ah, so is your device rooted?

Yes. Of course. How could you possibly have missed that fact?

You can easily see that all my android desktop screenshots that I have a
root directory. Even more so, I said in my second post of this thread that
the phone is rooted.

<http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/10/10/filesystem.jpg>

How else do you think I mount the *entire* Android file system (for example
to copy my HOSTS file between Windows and Android).
<http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/10/10/hosts8407d.jpg>

You can't access the entire file system on Android without being rooted,
where rooting on my phone doesn't even require a wire or a desktop. You
just download KingoRoot and click it, and Voila! You're rooted. (Yes. It's
that easy.)

That's another thing that's different between Android and iOS.
On Android, it was as simple as click click click to root my phone.

No wires. No computer. Just one download. And one button press.
If I want to unroot, it's just as simple. Easy peasy.

[Lewis]

In message <121020171926485320%nos...@nospam.invalid> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <oros2l$aah$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, harry newton
> <ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

>>
>> > Rebooted and it at least now seems better... but at this point I do not
>> > trust the device at all.
>>
>> Heh heh ... I have all Google Framework services turned off, Google Play
>> disabled, all GPS spying turned off, all advertising IDs completely wiped
>> off the Android phone, etc.

> which means a lot of functionality is void.

> you keep yapping about how much more that android can do, then you
> disable most of it.

>> (which is yet *another* set of things you just
>> can't do with iOS but which is *easy* to do with Android), and impossible
>> to do on iOS

> if you think disabling all of that prevents being tracked, you're an
> ignorant fool.

He's an ignorant fool either way.

>> . Remove the Google Play account on Android (versus iCloud account on iOS)
>> . Remove the Advertising ID on Android (it's impossible on iOS)

> so what? the advertising id on ios does not work the same way as on
> android, so removing it is not necessary.

And you can reset it on iOS anytime. You also can remove your iCloud
account.


--
SHERRI DOES NOT "GOT BACK" Bart chalkboard Ep. AABF07

[Snit]

On 10/12/17, 3:58 PM, in article oros2l$aah$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry newton"

<ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> He who is Snit said on Thu, 12 Oct 2017 10:32:55 -0700:
>
>> As I said in my video, I would be happy if you had altered your voice.
>
> I have a current thread on how to obfuscate voice on the Windows newsgroup.
> What is the canonical voice-altering (obfuscation) freeware on Windows?

No clue. I just used a built in macOS audio filter, using ScreenFlow. I
think I used "AUNewPitch", but maybe it was another.

But this is about a desktop program, NOT a mobile app.

> My voice is 100% recognizable to the many people who know me.
> Just like this one is (8.22 MB audio MP3 file):
> https://files.fm/u/7c6qkc22
>
> So I have to make it unrecognizable. Here's my first attempt, which isn't
> all that good (yet) at making that voice unrecognizable. 11.7MB MP3
> https://ufile.io/k6s79
>
> I used the suggested GoldWave software to obfuscate that voice recording:
> <http://www.goldwave.com/release.php/>
>
> But in hind sight, GoldWave wasn't much different from Audacity freeware:
> <https://sourceforge.net/projects/audacity/>
>
>> the main point was to see if you could show the screen while we hear the
>> computer and your voice. It was not about the quality of your voice or how
>> well produced the video is. I have more experience and I likely have easier
>> to use tools but they are on the desktop. If I had fully edited that on iOS
>> that might be a relevant issue... but I did not.
>
> I have to admit I'm impressed that you're different than the other iOS
> apologists in that you seem to have the capacity to comprehend facts.

The fact you continue to use insults such as "iOS apologists" shows you are
not particularly different from many others I have seen trolling different
groups of users: Mac, Windows, and Linux.

> So I can't really call you an iOS apologist since you *can* handle facts.

You use that term to get attention.

> The others *still* can't comprehend that what you (and they) had *thought*
> was signal strength, is decidedly not (it was just a mere speedtest). I had
> known that all along but I had to wait until I could make the recording
> that you so very much wanted to see.

Curious with that recording if you needed a "jail broken" device. If so that
fits with what I thought was true about Android. If not, well, then I was
wrong.

>> I used ScreenFlow with one of the standard audio filters built into macOS...
>> cannot even recall which one. The software I use is pretty darn good
>> (ScreenFlow) but it is not on iOS and thus not relevant here.
>
> The recording, to me, was not necessary to prove the point, since my point
> was pretty simply obvious (it's in the subject line for example).
>
> But for some reason, you greatly cared about the video recording. I didn't
> even know that recording on Android was supposed to be a problem since it
> was that easy for me (I had set it up long ago so all I did was press the
> RecMe button to start and stop the recording and then slide the file over
> to Windows after mounting my Android phone on the Windows file system over
> the WiFi LAN because my USB port is kaput).

I know you can record video on Android, but here are the things I am not
sure if you can do:

* Record voice, computer sound, and screen without jail breaking.
* Record time-coordinated with a desktop screen to show interaction.

A bit more on the desktop side, but I also would want to be able to show the
mouse placement on the desktop (though replacing the image if I want so it
is more easily seen in the video) and then also being able to hide that and
"fake" it to "touch" the Android screen. This is pretty easy with macOS and
iOS, but, again, the software I use is desktop based and the mouse stuff is
not directly relevant to Android / iOS.

> The only reason it took me a while to upload the video recording was that I
> didn't know how to edit the video to redact the SSID and BSSID information.
> It turns out that the technique of using Shotcut freeware to place XXXX
> text of the same font color and background color did the trick.

I have a number of tools that make it fairly easy for me. This is just a
desktop recording, but note the blurring of data I do not want folks to see:

<https://youtu.be/vNcNUw6yN34?t=1m54s>

If you watch that frame by frame, even downloading it to get it more exact,
you will see the data on the web page is blurred out even as it scrolls. To
be fair, that is not fully automatic, but it is not that hard.

Also blur out other areas where my real IP showed.

> In the first recording (Fritz), the grandkids were making a fuss in the
> background, so that's mostly why I added the sound track. In the second
> recording (WiFi Analyzer), I didn't touch the sound track (I could easily
> have removed it but I left it since you seemed to care so very much about
> it). As you can see from the screenshots, I have *plenty* of other WiFi
> utils which I *wish* were available to me on iOS.

And I can understand why you would want to. Where I disagree with you is
taking THAT issue and making up stories about how Apple will not allow this
(if true you have not shown it) and then making up claims about phone lists
you link to, insisting absurd things about iOS, etc.

> Remember, I have both iOS and Android and I just want them both to be
> functional. I don't like one or the other.

Clearly and unambiguously you prefer Android. And that is fine... just wish
you were honest about it.

> I just want both iOS and Android to do things for me.
>
>> Say you wanted to make a video showing someone how to transfer files to/from
>> the Android device... to do this you would want to be able to show the
>> Android device screen, the desktop screen (with the relevant program you are
>> using), and your voice. You would also want to be able to blur things out
>> and show where your mouse pointer is as well as where you are touching on
>> the Android device.
>
> I don't have this need so I will just mention that there are *plenty* of
> programs which interface the desktop to the mobile phone. I'm not going
> down that road because it's not something I ever want to do.

It is something I do... and from what I know it is, at best, much harder on
Android (esp. with Windows).

> All I want I already have, which is to mount the file system seamlessly
> with the desktop file system. Seamless file system mounting is all I care
> about when interfacing a desktop to a mobile device.
>
> Your desktop-to-mobile needs may/will differ.

Sure. But I will say I like the new Apple "Files" program and it is one of
the few places I use the Cloud. I have some files on my iOS device I save to
the cloud... from my desktop they are in a folder and I can drag them where
I want. Before I used to email them which was not bad, but this is better.

>> The software I use even has what they call "touch callouts" where I can add
>> one or more "touch points" and then animate them to an end-point. I am not
>> really fond of that feature and for single touches I like my method of
>> having my larger, easier to see mouse pointer move to whichever device I am
>> using.
>
> You have to realize that was my very first video.

Sure: as I said I am not judging Android based on your video... other than
to note you showed the voice which I did not think you could without jail
breaking. Still not sure... from what you posted you may have.

> If I was in the habit of making videos, I'd learn how to highlight what the
> user is doing on the mobile device. I don't have that need, so I won't
> learn how to do it as the method I used (of adding text boxes to the video)
> is "good enough" for government work.
>
> But if you have desktop software that you can leverage to the group
> (generally that means freeware that is cross platform, like Shotcut is),
> then by all means let folks know.
>
> The whole point is to always increase the tribal knowledge of the group as
> a whole with every post.

The software I use is Mac only and uses OS/GPU meta-data in a way that no
Windows or Linux program I have ever found does. Makes for a LOT of benefits
(but only relevant tangentially to phones given that the same software can
record the phone).

>> Oh, and I have a custom ring-tone for my family. It works about 2/3 of the
>> time. We have tested this: Phone sitting there, untouched... call from
>> another phone -- get the right ringtone. Call again. And Again. Do that six
>> times. On average about two of the six times it will use the "standard" ring
>> tone and not the custom.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by the "ringtone works about 2/3 of the time" as
> I also have custom ringtones for my entire family.

Say my standard ringtone is "Ring". I have one set up for a Family group
called "Pick up the phone".

I use one of the phones in the group (any one... but for now the same, say
my wife's but could also be one of my kids'):

Call six times. About 4 of the 6 times I get the "Pick up the phone"
ringtone. About 2 of the 6 times I get the standard "Ring".

Happens for each of the phones in the group. Or did. I unset that setting,
set the ringtone for each person for the group, rebooted. No change. Still
worked about 2/3 of the time but failed about 1/3. Rebooted again and it
seemed OK.

Went a few days and tested again... seems to work 100% of the time now but I
do not trust it. Without it being reliable the feature is FAR less useful.

> They work just fine for me, each one saying "Jane is calling", "Bill is
> calling", "Susan is calling", etc.
>
> Since I *always* increase the tribal knowledge of the group with each of my
> threads (knowledge and leverage is my gig), I long ago already wrote up how
> to do that on Android using freeware so that anyone can do it.
> Custom "jane is calling" ringtones using Songify & Ringdroid
>
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/Ncs-dfqMQxk/g3a9BTY9AAAJ>
>
> As that original post says, the freeware I've used are Songify:
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.smule.songify>
> And Ringdroid:
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ringdroid>
>
> The great thing about freeware is that it does everything I need, and, it
> is easily leveraged so that everyone else can do whatever I can do.

I created the ringtones on the desktop, saved them as MP3s and then moved
them to the Android device. Selected from the "Contacts" application (I
think that is what it is called).

But these types of failures seem VERY common on Android. Could be because I
have very low end devices, but seems that should not matter for this. A
crappy touch screen and slowness, sure... but this... I cannot see how a low
end device would lead to this.

>> Rebooted and it at least now seems better... but at this point I do not
>> trust the device at all.
>
> Heh heh ... I have all Google Framework services turned off, Google Play
> disabled, all GPS spying turned off, all advertising IDs completely wiped
> off the Android phone, etc. (which is yet *another* set of things you just
> can't do with iOS but which is *easy* to do with Android), and impossible
> to do on iOS
>
> . Remove the Google Play account on Android (versus iCloud account on iOS)
>
> . Remove the Advertising ID on Android (it's impossible on iOS)

There is very little advertising on iOS.

> I already can tell you what the iOS apologists will say about the above,
> since we've had the discussion in the past on this very newsgroup where the
> iOS apologists are again dead wrong on all accounts.

I just want to know why the "Google" app used so much power from my phone.
Finally killed it and my phone lasts the day.

>> I do have an iPod Touch, and it is a much faster device (also a lot more
>> expensive). My main use of the Android device is as a phone and to turn on
>> the Wi-FI hotspot so I can use my Touch on the go.
>
> I have plenty of iPods too. I haven't looked it up yet, but since I listen
> to hours-long documentaries on the iPod that I've downloaded off of
> YouTube, I wonder if you know, offhand, how to skip forward in an MP3 file
> on an iPod?

When I was listening to more audiobooks I used a specific audio book app...
could set it to jump ahead in configurable "small" and "large" jumps. I can
look up the app again if you want...

> BTW, in the interest of always increasing the knowledge level of the group
> with every post, to download your video off of Youtube was as easy as
> running this command:
> youtube-dl.exe -x --audio-format mp3 --audio-quality 0
> https://youtu.be/7QaABa6DFIo

I use a bookmarklet to keepvid.com. Also use one to http://savieo.com which
allows me to get videos from a BUNCH of sites (but I like the keepvid UI
more so I keep that as my standard).

The URLs are:

javascript:(function()%7Bwindow.open('http://keepvid.com/?url='+encodeURICom
ponent(location.href)+'')%7D)();

javascript:(function()%7Bwindow.open('http://savieo.com/download?url='+encod
eURIComponent(location.href)+'')%7D)();

I also have one for the WayBackMachine:

javascript:location.href='http://web.archive.org/web/*/'+document.location.h
ref;

Etc.

>> Oh, and unless I manually set the damned thing on battery saver mode every
>> time I unplug it, it still often (though not always) drains the battery in a
>> few hours. Cannot even last a day UNUSED.
>
> That's what I love about phones like mine which have a removable battery.

Mine does not... but even if it did I would not want to carry multiple
batteries around with me. It does take a LONG time to charge, though, so
maybe that would be handy.

And, again, while the apps running might be tied to Android and the like,
the hardware is just low end... not blaming Android for that.

> I have an entire thread on all the ways you can charge batteries, where I
> can charge a half dozen (if I want) simultaneously for my Android phone.
>
> None of that functionality is possible for my Apple iOS devices.

There is a trade-off on bigger battery / replaceable battery.

>> I have no issue with people liking Android more. Heck, if I had a higher end
>> Android device I might like it more. I do get that part of the problems I am
>> having is the Android device is a low end one... of course it is not going
>> to compete well with an iPhone or even my iPod Touch.
>
> I misread you in that I thought you were a typical iOS apologist who can't
> comprehend facts. You didn't at first comprehend the facts, but you seem to
> be able to actually comprehend facts.

You seem unable to stop engaging in name calling.

> It's therefore important for me to bother to tell you that you have it
> wrong that you keep assuming that I don't like iOS and I like Android.
>
> It's not that I like or don't like either one. I just know facts about
> them. They are just cold hard facts. It's not a like or not like issue with
> me as it is with the iOS apologists who are so threatened by facts that,
> even now, they can't comprehend the simple facts that you seem to have
> comprehended in this thread alone.

The fact you engage in name calling toward anyone who prefers iOS, or even
corrects you when you are wrong, shows your preference, even if you deny it.

> All I do is speak facts about iOS and facts about Android.
> Both are great. Both suck.
>
> It's not a matter of whether I like one or the other any more than it's a
> matter that I like one of my kids or grandkids more than one or the other.
>
> Some of my kids play football (e.g., the boys) and some of them can't
> (e.g., the girls). It's not that I like the boys any more or less because
> they can play football better than the girls. It's just a fact that they
> do.

Why can't girls play football? That makes no sense.

> It's the same with iOS and Android.
>
> It's just a fact that there's no known app functionality on iOS that
> Android doesn't already have, and that Android has app functionality that
> iOS doesn't have (e.g., the ability to graph Wi-Fi signal strength over
> time).

You have been shown this is wrong. Someone posted a list. I can point to
specific apps on iOS that do not exist on Android (say the "Microscope RPG"
app).

> The iOS apologists hate facts, so that factual statement doesn't sit well
> with them - but it's just a cold hard fact just like it's a cold hard fact
> that the tooth fairy doesn't exist.
>
> The iOS apologists keep asking me to prove there's no tooth fairy, and I
> tell them to just show me some functionality that is inherently on Apple
> iOS mobile devices that isn't already on Android mobile devices (all by
> their itty bitty selves) - and all they can come up with is meaningless
> brand names and trademarks - which just shows that they can't comprehend
> even the question since they can't think outside of the box Apple Marketing
> built for them to live inside.

See: this is just you trolling.

> We've had that discussion a zillion times though where the iOS apologists
> can't handle facts, so let's not go there again unless you can claim a
> single functionality that unjailbroken Apple iOS mobile devices have all by
> their itty bitty selves that Android devices don't already have.
>
> Notice once you jailbreak an iOS device, you gain tremendous functionality,
> so it's not the hardware that is crippling the app functionality on iOS
> devices. The hardware on Apple mobile devices is on par with the best
> hardware on Android devices (they fluctuate but overall they're all about
> the same, which again, we've proven time and again where only the Apple
> apologists don't understand that cold hard honest fact.)

The current CPUs in iPhones, I have read, tend to be a generation or two
ahead of the best of Android. We can look at speed tests and compare.

> HINT: Almost all the flame wars throughout Usenet history are initiated,
> propagated, and perpetuated by the Apple apologists simply because they
> just can't handle cold hard facts. It's just how they're wired.

This is, again, you just trolling.

> You seem to be different from the iOS apologists.
> You seem to be able to actually comprehend facts.
>
>> Sounds like you want to use your mobile device almost as a desktop
>> replacement. That is very different from my use. We will end up with
>> different preferences in, if nothing else, how we use such devices.
>
> I don't think that's a fair assessment since a desktop and a mobile device
> are, essentially, two different beasts.
>
> I just want my mobile device to do things, many of which aren't scripted
> already for me by some marketing guy trying to make a buck off of me.
>
> Remember, turn off all Google spyware that I know about, so I don't even
> own a Google account on my Android phones. I don't have an advertising ID.
> I search, play, and even download YouTube videos on my Android device
> without *ever* seeing an advertisement ... oh ..
>
> Oh, that reminds me. Here's *another* thing that is trivial on Android and
> impossible on iOS devices.
> . Search and watch YouTube video for free without ever seeing an ad
>
> . Downloading the video or extracting the audio from the same GUI
>
> And, I think (but I have to doublecheck if iOS can't do this)
> . Rotate the screen based on app choices alone (software switch)
>
> . Disable the Internet (not just cellular data) by app (software switch)

I do not think you can do that on iOS. Sure.

> You see? Very many things that are trivial to do on Android are simply
> impossible on iOS.

To me it is more about what is possible but HOW things are done. Do not have
enough experience with modern Android to really compare though.

...

>> And that is fine. Where I have an issue with your claims is when you deny
>> iOS can do ANYTHING that Android can and hold to that even when given
>> examples, when you claim the hardware is the same even though most sites put
>> the CPUs in iPhones as being well ahead of the competition, when you insist
>> that iPhones are not often in the top ten of cameras when your own source
>> shows 5 of the top 10 cameras it lists as being different iPhones, etc.
>
> Every time we have gone down this route of "examples" of "funcdtionality"
> that iOS reputedly has that Android doesn't have, I have to spend time and
> energy refuting the claims, since all the iOS people can do is talk about
> meaningless brand names like "airdrop" and "continuity", neither of which
> is the iOS device "all by its itty bitty self" anyway.

If you discount all things iOS does that Android does not then, of course,
you will insist iOS cannot do things Android cannot.

I have no desire to play that game though.
...

[Snit]

On 10/12/17, 4:43 PM, in article orounu$de5$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry newton"

<ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> He who is Snit said on Thu, 12 Oct 2017 10:53:51 -0700:
>
>>> I greatly appreciate that you just showed that you can admit facts.
>>
>> I think you will find I, more than most, am happy to admit when I am wrong
>> or when I am ignorant about something. You have made a bunch of assumptions
>> about me being an apologist for iOS and, I think, Apple products in general.
>
> I agree that I had you pegged wrong.
>
> Unlike the iOS apologists nospam, Jolly Roger, Lewis, etc., you can
> actually comprehend facts.
>
> When I originally opened this thread, I knew *exactly* how the iOS
> apologists would respond because I knew they can't comprehend facts.
>
> None of those Apple apologists will ever be able to comprehend facts.
> But you seem to be different - which was the only surprise in this thread.
> I've been talking about you over on the Windows newsgroup, where I had been
> planning this thread for two weeks.
>
> The main purpose of this thread was just to prove beyond a shadow of a
> doubt that the iOS apologists can't comprehend facts about iOS.
>
> They call them "lies" or "trolls" but they just can't comprehend facts
> about iOS.
>
> You seem to be able to comprehend facts about iOS so that was a surprise to
> me, especially after I first saw your video and I knew it would be child's
> play to prove that you were dead wrong the moment I first saw the video.

You have shown you can record voice, screen, and computer sounds -- but did
you need to use a jail broken device?

And you have not shown a time-coordinated video of Android and any desktop.
Now this can be done if you have a clock on both or if you have sound on
both or whatever and you manually try to line things up in a video editor,
but I am talking about recording both at the same time and then editing. I
have gone into use cases of this elsewhere.

> Had I known you could actually comprehend facts, I wouldn't have bothered
> to spend the time and effort it took to find and learn and use Shotcut to
> edit the video I had recorded long ago on Android of the functionality you
> said in your video was impossible on Android.
>
> So, while it's no surprise at all that the iOS apologists constantly make
> up fictional iOS functionality - it *was* a surprise to me that you could
> comprehend facts that proved otherwise.
>
> Therefore, you're not an iOS apologists.
> Neither is David Empson, for that matter.
>
> You and he both can comprehend facts.
> The iOS apologists have proven time and again that they can't comprehend
> any facts about iOS.
>
> Why?
> You tell me why.

The real question is why you are so insecure you feel the need to engage in
name calling over actually making points. With that said, you SOMETIMES do
make some points... but they are buried in your trolling.

>> Yes, I tend to prefer macOS for many things, but I do not even claim to know
>> modern Android (nor do I have a high end iOS device... or a high end macOS
>> device, really).
>
> I use all the operating systems just like I play with all my grandkids.
> Some can play football. Some can't. That's just a fact.

Elsewhere you said girls cannot play football. That was an odd belief.

> It's a fact that some can do everything that the others can do, and it's a
> fact that some can't do what the others can do.
>
> Those are just facts.
> It doesn't mean I like one more than the other.
>
> On this newsgroup, it seems that if you state facts about iOS, then it is
> called a "lie" or a "troll" simply because you stated a cold hard fact that
> the iOS apologists don't like.
>
> Why do the iOS apologists call a fact about iOS a lie?
> I don't know. You tell me.

You look for things that can be done on Android and, perhaps, not done on
iOS. Then you make up claims that Apple does not ALLOW this, as you did with
the Wi-Fi monitoring. Apple *might* disallow that but you have shown no
evidence.

And I have covered other examples where you make things up, too.

>>> The app provides many features and settings to fill all your needs:
>>> [] Root not required: Prior to Android 5.0 you only need to run our startup
>>> tool from your computer to activate screen recording.
>>
>> So requires a desktop. Interesting.
>
> Note that I used RecMe on Android where I *never* used any desktop to
> record the video. I simply used the desktop to *edit* the video.

Sure... I have video recording software on my Android and iOS devices (iOS
comes with it actually) but I do my editing on the desktop as well.

> But I'm on Android 4.3 and I think everything changed in Android 4.4 with
> respect to screen recording and then again with Android 5.0.
>
> So all I can say emphatically is that I downloaded RecMe and ran it and it
> worked for me on my specific Android 4.3 phone but I can't say anything
> more about other Android versions because I never tested it with them.
>
>> Ah, so is your device rooted?
>
> Yes. Of course. How could you possibly have missed that fact?

OK, so are you only able to do as discussed (record screen, voice, and
computer sound) on a rooted device?

> You can easily see that all my android desktop screenshots that I have a
> root directory. Even more so, I said in my second post of this thread that
> the phone is rooted.
>
> <http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/10/10/filesystem.jpg>
>
> How else do you think I mount the *entire* Android file system (for example
> to copy my HOSTS file between Windows and Android).
> <http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/10/10/hosts8407d.jpg>
>
> You can't access the entire file system on Android without being rooted,

I did not know that. Interesting. Thanks.

> where rooting on my phone doesn't even require a wire or a desktop. You
> just download KingoRoot and click it, and Voila! You're rooted. (Yes. It's
> that easy.)
>
> That's another thing that's different between Android and iOS.
> On Android, it was as simple as click click click to root my phone.
>
> No wires. No computer. Just one download. And one button press.
> If I want to unroot, it's just as simple. Easy peasy.

Seems you can do the video task I talked about on Android only if you root
the device... even though on iOS the solution comes with it (though, to be
fair, it only has recently).

Does not mean it is impossible on Android, but most people will not want to
root their phone... and for good reason:

<https://www.tomsguide.com/us/dont-root-your-android-phone,news-24452.html>

[Snit]

On 10/12/17, 6:09 PM, in article slrnou04ih....@snow.local, "Lewis"

Was it you who posted a list of things you can do on iOS and not Android?
Would be fun to have that list but with a quick search I do not see it.

Also turns out Harry can do the things I noted when he ROOTS his Android
phone, but, I believe, not without doing so.

[Jolly Roger]

harry newton <ha...@is.invalid> wrote:
>
> If anyone knows how to *skip* to, say, the 30-minute mark on a two-hour
> long documenary on an iPod, that would be useful.

This, from the resident Apple-hating nym-switching troll who constantly
claims he is smarter than everyone here. Just priceless! It's almost
fucking poetic. : D

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[harry newton]

He who is Snit said on Thu, 12 Oct 2017 18:25:53 -0700:

> Curious with that recording if you needed a "jail broken" device. If so that
> fits with what I thought was true about Android. If not, well, then I was
> wrong.

What you're arguing is a non sequitur because I never once said anything
about freeware screen recording when I stated that it's a fact that even
devices on the latest iOS release can't graph Wi-Fi access point signal
strength over time.

You brought up screen recording.
I simply recorded my screen with RecMe freeware to show you the WiFi Signal
Strength graphing because I already had RecMe installed on my device.

My Android device *happened* to be rooted for completely other reasons,
which are clear in my second post of this thread, which is that I want to
see the entire file system (which I'm sure you can believe, being extremely
and severely restricted on what you can see in iOS).

Looking up whether iOS can do screen recording for free, it seems that this
is a now-native functionality that was added in iOS 11 according to this
article:
<https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-use-ios-11-built-in-screen-recording-feature/>

Even so, it looks like the *first app* that Apple allowed to record the
screen was added in 2012 according to this article:
<https://www.cnet.com/how-to/you-can-now-record-your-ios-devices-screen-with-display-recorder/>

So, when did non-root screen recording come to Android?
I don't know.
A long time though ... since my phone is utterly ancient.

OK. It looks like it has been there since at least Android 5.0 which
shipped in 2014.

Here's an Android 5.0+- app that comes up in a quick search of Google Play:
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hecorat.screenrecorder.free>

Googling for best Android screen recording apps, the first hit, from a year
ago, openly states
"One of our more frequent requests from readers is to tell them
how to record your screen on Android. The functionality has been
around for quite some time but usually requires some tinkering
and adjustment to get it. In Android Lollipop, they have a screen
recording method building into the OS and that+IBk-s how most people
do it these days. Let+IBk-s take a look at a few Android apps and
some other methods to get you screen recording."

So it seems that whatever tack you're taking is just a non sequitur because
screen recording, like web browsers, isn't an app functionality that has
any merits with respect to what you're apparently trying to intimate.

It seems that both Android and iOS have screen recording freeware.
I never said otherwise.

If you have a point, then make it - but I never brought up freeware screen
recording as a point of distinction between Android and iOS app
functionality.

[nospam]

In article <D6056431.BA909%use...@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit

<use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> > Heh heh ... I have all Google Framework services turned off, Google Play
> > disabled, all GPS spying turned off, all advertising IDs completely wiped
> > off the Android phone, etc. (which is yet *another* set of things you just
> > can't do with iOS but which is *easy* to do with Android), and impossible
> > to do on iOS
> >
> > . Remove the Google Play account on Android (versus iCloud account on iOS)
> >
> > . Remove the Advertising ID on Android (it's impossible on iOS)
>
> There is very little advertising on iOS.

that depends on the app, not ios (or android).

some apps are ad-supported while others are not. it's up to the user
which ones to use.

what he doesn't realize is that even without an advertising id, apps
can easily track users, and that little can be done on ios with an
advertising id.

he also doesn't realize that deleting google services and/or an
advertising id on android doesn't do what he thinks it does, and is
actually counterproductive.

and some phones have their own tracking, such as oneplus:

<https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/10/11/16457954/oneplus-pho
nes-collecting-sensitive-data>
... Moore detailed how OnePlus devices running OxygenOS record data
at various points, including when a user locks or unlocks the screen;
when apps are opened, used, and closed; and which Wi-Fi networks the
device connects to. That零 all relatively standard.

But OnePlus also collects the phone零 IMEI, phone number, and mobile
network names, so the data sent is identifiable to you personally
with little to no effort required, which is what makes this very
problematic.

[nospam]

In article <D6056BA0.BA913%use...@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit

<use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> On 10/12/17, 6:09 PM, in article slrnou04ih....@snow.local, "Lewis"
> <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> >>> . Remove the Google Play account on Android (versus iCloud account on iOS)
> >>> . Remove the Advertising ID on Android (it's impossible on iOS)
> >
> >> so what? the advertising id on ios does not work the same way as on
> >> android, so removing it is not necessary.
> >
> > And you can reset it on iOS anytime. You also can remove your iCloud
> > account.
>
> Was it you who posted a list of things you can do on iOS and not Android?
> Would be fun to have that list but with a quick search I do not see it.

lewis posted a short list and i posted a much longer list.

> Also turns out Harry can do the things I noted when he ROOTS his Android
> phone, but, I believe, not without doing so.

note that he forbids jailbreaking an iphone in his comparisons, but has
no issues whatsoever with rooting an android phone.

[harry newton]

He who is Snit said on Thu, 12 Oct 2017 18:57:36 -0700:

> Also turns out Harry can do the things I noted when he ROOTS his Android
> phone, but, I believe, not without doing so.

C'mon Snit.

Don't lapse back into being fact challenged again.

I realize the iOS apologists are desperate to find something (anything)
that iOS apps do that Android doesn't already do ... but screen recording
freeware isn't gonna be one of them no matter how desperate you are.

This article gives some basics, but freeware screen recording dates back
between Android 2.2.3 to Android 4.3 (which my device clearly is); but that
a freely available screen-recording API was added in Android 4.4
<https://www.apptamin.com/blog/screen-recorder-for-android/>
where native screen recording was added in Android 5.0

Since free native screen recording apparently didn't get added to iOS until
just now in iOS 11, Android had that native free screen recording for
*years* before iOS did - but I'm not trying to intimate that screen
recording is different between iOS and Android like you seem to be
attempting.

Looking for when freeware screen recording first appeared in iOS, we see
this article from 2016 which says (verbatim):
"First discovered by MacStories, the $4.99 app is not cheap, but it works.
By simulating an AirPlay Mirroring connection to itself, Vidyo is able
to capture any screen displayed on your iPhone. Once recording is
completed, users have the option of doing additional post processing
and saving the video to the Photos app. If you want the ability to record
your iPhone+IBk-s screen natively without relying on jailbreaks or external
hardware, then you better act fast and purchase and backup Vidyo. This
app will likely be removed soon, as it features functionality that
Apple+IBk-s reviewers have previously rejected apps for once discovered."
<http://www.idownloadblog.com/2016/01/06/a-new-ios-screen-recording-app-sneaks-into-the-app-store/>

Suffice to say that free native screen recording, currently, is native only
recently on iOS and has been native on Android for a very long time. Screen
recording hacks have been available on both platforms, far longer on
Android it seems, but still, for a long time also.

The only difference might be that on Android it's freeware whereas on iOS
it's not clear if there was any freeware ever but I'm not going down that
track because this whole screen recording things is just you desperately
trying to find something iOS does that Android doesn't ... which is fine
... but it's not gonna show up in screen recording freeware.

I still welcome you mentioning one app functionality that no current
Android device can do that a current iOS device can do.

Every single item that was ever mentioned in the past was easily shown to
be a complete fabrication of the iOS apologists - as was their complete and
continual fabrication of the WiFi signal strength capability ... so I know
their history.

But you are welcome to try. Screen recording isn't gonna be it though.
And I never said it would be.

--
BTW, since you're so locked into the grasp of having a desktop record the
mobile device screen, look at this link I found while looking up screen
recording dates which I only present because it might be of interest to you
https://tunesgo.wondershare.com/android/android-screen-capture.html

[Snit]

On 10/12/17, 7:14 PM, in article orp7ik$n7o$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry newton"

<ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> He who is Snit said on Thu, 12 Oct 2017 18:25:53 -0700:
>
>> Curious with that recording if you needed a "jail broken" device. If so that
>> fits with what I thought was true about Android. If not, well, then I was
>> wrong.
>
> What you're arguing is a non sequitur because I never once said anything
> about freeware screen recording when I stated that it's a fact that even
> devices on the latest iOS release can't graph Wi-Fi access point signal
> strength over time.

The recording comment was brought up in response to your claim that there
was NOTHING iOS can do that Android cannot.

> You brought up screen recording.

Right: but not because of your comments on Wi-Fi.

By the way, did a bit of research just out of curiosity. There are many
things, it seems, that iOS can do that Android cannot (or so these articles
say). Again, I have not tested:

* Drag and drop content: this is new to iOS and while I do not do much
content creation I have used it. Works well.

* Search contacts, settings, mail, etc. all at once: Is this really true? If
so this is a pretty big benefit of iOS.

* Be secure (97% of mobile malware is for Android). This is a pretty big
issue on Android, as it is on Windows.

* Charge with more than 9 watts of power: Seems micro-USB is limited to
that. Apple's connector is not. And it is reversible. With my Android
devices I end up using white-out on the plug so I can easily see which side
is "up".

* Listen to lossless 48 kHz audio on headphones: as far as I can find, NO
Android device has this ability.

* Video editor as powerful as iMovie... I do not know the competition in
this, but several sites claim it.

These are some of the sites I referenced:

<https://www.tomsguide.com/us/iphone-is-better-than-android,news-21307.html>
OR <https://goo.gl/CdbvkS>

<http://www.macworld.co.uk/feature/iphone/best-iphone-only-apps-3592208>

<http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/702037/Apple-iPhone-
iOS-Things-Better-vs-Android> OR <https://goo.gl/t4Rh5C>

<https://www.bustle.com/articles/107086-7-awesome-things-iphones-can-do-that
-androids-cant> OR <https://goo.gl/DdfdDX>

> I simply recorded my screen with RecMe freeware to show you the WiFi Signal
> Strength graphing because I already had RecMe installed on my device.
>
> My Android device *happened* to be rooted for completely other reasons,

But if it was not rooted could you get sound, screen, and voice at the same
time? I do not think so (but could be wrong). Looking at the RecMe site and
other reviews I do not see any sign it can generally do this (though maybe
they just do not mention it?)

> which are clear in my second post of this thread, which is that I want to
> see the entire file system (which I'm sure you can believe, being extremely
> and severely restricted on what you can see in iOS).
>
> Looking up whether iOS can do screen recording for free, it seems that this
> is a now-native functionality that was added in iOS 11 according to this
> article:
> <https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-use-ios-11-built-in-screen-recording-featu
> re/>

Yes, works well, though I prefer to record from my desktop software.

> Even so, it looks like the *first app* that Apple allowed to record the
> screen was added in 2012 according to this article:
>
> <https://www.cnet.com/how-to/you-can-now-record-your-ios-devices-screen-with-d
> isplay-recorder/>
>
> So, when did non-root screen recording come to Android?

Again, the question was not just about screen recording but doing so with
device and voice recording. You DID do this... but I believe that requires a
rooted device with Android (though I could be wrong).

> I don't know.
> A long time though ... since my phone is utterly ancient.
>
> OK. It looks like it has been there since at least Android 5.0 which
> shipped in 2014.
>
> Here's an Android 5.0+- app that comes up in a quick search of Google Play:
>
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hecorat.screenrecorder.free>
>
>
> Googling for best Android screen recording apps, the first hit, from a year
> ago, openly states
> "One of our more frequent requests from readers is to tell them
> how to record your screen on Android. The functionality has been
> around for quite some time but usually requires some tinkering
> and adjustment to get it. In Android Lollipop, they have a screen
> recording method building into the OS and that+IBk-s how most people
> do it these days. Let+IBk-s take a look at a few Android apps and
> some other methods to get you screen recording."
>
> So it seems that whatever tack you're taking is just a non sequitur because
> screen recording, like web browsers, isn't an app functionality that has
> any merits with respect to what you're apparently trying to intimate.

You are making this much more complex than it is: I am talking about
recording the screen, device sound, and voice at once. You DID do this, but
only on a rooted device. Can it be done on a non-rooted Android device?

> It seems that both Android and iOS have screen recording freeware.
> I never said otherwise.

Nor I. Not sure why you keep going back to that.

> If you have a point, then make it - but I never brought up freeware screen
> recording as a point of distinction between Android and iOS app
> functionality.

LOL! You are having a failure to understand here.

[Snit]

On 10/12/17, 7:19 PM, in article 121020172219125989%nos...@nospam.invalid,

"nospam" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <D6056BA0.BA913%use...@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
> <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>
>> On 10/12/17, 6:09 PM, in article slrnou04ih....@snow.local, "Lewis"
>> <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>>>> . Remove the Google Play account on Android (versus iCloud account on iOS)
>>>>> . Remove the Advertising ID on Android (it's impossible on iOS)
>>>
>>>> so what? the advertising id on ios does not work the same way as on
>>>> android, so removing it is not necessary.
>>>
>>> And you can reset it on iOS anytime. You also can remove your iCloud
>>> account.
>>
>> Was it you who posted a list of things you can do on iOS and not Android?
>> Would be fun to have that list but with a quick search I do not see it.
>
> lewis posted a short list and i posted a much longer list.

Do you have a link to it (or a copy / paste of it)?

>> Also turns out Harry can do the things I noted when he ROOTS his Android
>> phone, but, I believe, not without doing so.
>
> note that he forbids jailbreaking an iphone in his comparisons, but has
> no issues whatsoever with rooting an android phone.

If so that is completely absurd.

Even with jail breaking, though, I do not think any Android device lets you
charge at more than 9 watts, nor allows you to listen to headphone with
lossless 48 kHz audio.

And more. He did, though, show screen and system sound and voice at once...
but on a rooted device.

[harry newton]

He who is nospam said on Thu, 12 Oct 2017 22:19:12 -0400:

> note that he forbids jailbreaking an iphone in his comparisons, but has
> no issues whatsoever with rooting an android phone.

Notice how desperate the nospam iOS apologist is to find something
(anything) that iOS can do that Android doesn't *already* do!

Nospam, as *always* is completely fact challenged since he conveniently
forgets to state that the public screen recorder API has been on Android
since version 4.4 (released in 2013) when free screen recording apps were
already available and a *native* free screen recorder was shipped with
Android 5.0 (released in 2014).

Meanwhile, a native screen recorder wasn't shipped on iOS until 24 days
ago.

Also, this article implies that Apple didn't allow purposefully screen
recording in as late as 2016, and it's not even freeware as it is on
Android.
Verbatim: "This app will likely be removed soon, as it features
[screen recording] functionality that Apple+IBk-s reviewers

have previously rejected apps for once discovered."

Then, at the bottom of that article, dated January 6, 2016, it says:
"Update: As expected, Apple pulled Vidyo! from the App Store.".
http://www.idownloadblog.com/2016/01/06/a-new-ios-screen-recording-app-sneaks-into-the-app-store/

To Snit:
You asked for proof that Apple removes apps that do things it doesn't want
them to do; here's potential proof (depending on why Apple pulled the app).

--
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_version_history
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_version_history

[Snit]

On 10/12/17, 7:34 PM, in article orp8mo$p0c$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry newton"

<ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> He who is Snit said on Thu, 12 Oct 2017 18:57:36 -0700:
>
>> Also turns out Harry can do the things I noted when he ROOTS his Android
>> phone, but, I believe, not without doing so.
>
> C'mon Snit.
>
> Don't lapse back into being fact challenged again.

Are you claiming that on a non-rooted Android device you can record screen,
device sound, and voice at once?

Might be possible -- but I did not find it.

> I realize the iOS apologists are desperate to find something (anything)
> that iOS apps do that Android doesn't already do

Oh, we like to find those things because of your obsession with denying it.
I *never* looked until you denied it. Never cared.

> ... but screen recording freeware isn't gonna be one of them no matter how
> desperate you are.

Why do you keep moving goal posts like that? I talk about recording:

* Screen, voice, and device audio

You move to recording:

* Screen.

Do not get me wrong, in your rooted device you at least appeared to show all
three, and I am NOT accusing you of faking it. Sure, maybe you are fooling
me or whatever but I simply accept you are being honest and showed it being
done.

But can you do that on a non-rooted device? Not that I can find BUT I am
open to being shown to be wrong.

...

> I still welcome you mentioning one app functionality that no current
> Android device can do that a current iOS device can do.

I gave you a list elsewhere.

> Every single item that was ever mentioned in the past was easily shown to
> be a complete fabrication of the iOS apologists - as was their complete and
> continual fabrication of the WiFi signal strength capability ... so I know
> their history.
>
> But you are welcome to try. Screen recording isn't gonna be it though.

Nor did anyone say, suggest, hint, or imply that was the case. This is you
just failing to understand what you read.

> And I never said it would be.

Nor did I. You just moved goal posts to that.

[harry newton]

He who is harry newton said on Fri, 13 Oct 2017 02:34:02 +0000 (UTC):

> Suffice to say that free native screen recording, currently, is native only
> recently on iOS and has been native on Android for a very long time. Screen
> recording hacks have been available on both platforms, far longer on
> Android it seems, but still, for a long time also.

Actually, it seems that free screen recording was, apparently, *never* on
iOS, but maybe the iOS apologists can show that assumption to be wrong.

Nonetheless, I do realize that the iOS apologists are desperate to find
something (anything) that iOS can do that Android doesn't *already* do,
but, I never said screen recording is one of them (and it seems that
freeware screen recording, up until 24 days ago, *was* one of them).

Nonetheless, since a public screen recording API has been available in
Android since Android 4.4 (2013) and a public screen recording API since
Android 5.0 2014 (and private recordings since 2.2.3 (2011)), we can safely
say that native free screen recording is on Android and has been for a very
long time.

On iOS, we can say that as late as 2016, Apple *pulled* a screen recording
app off the App Store, and that native screen recording only released on
iOS 11, 24 days ago.
<http://www.idownloadblog.com/2016/01/06/a-new-ios-screen-recording-app-sneaks-into-the-app-store/>

If the iOS apologists still want to create fictional capabilities for iOS
with respect to free screen recording, you're welcome to try, but at least
present some facts in your arguments.

[harry newton]

He who is Snit said on Thu, 12 Oct 2017 19:44:22 -0700:

> The recording comment was brought up in response to your claim that there
> was NOTHING iOS can do that Android cannot.

C'mon Snit.
This is a hellova lot simpler than you are trying to make it out to be.

Does a current iOS device record the screen? (yes or no)
Does a current Android device record the screen. (yes or no)

Either shut up or answer those two questions because you're lapsing into
the classic iOS apologist "I bought too many arguments this week" tactic.

Either *find* something that iOS apps can do that Android apps can't, or
shut up.

It's not gonna be screen recording because I know the answer to those two
questions but you and nospam don't seem to know the simplest of facts.

[harry newton]

He who is Snit said on Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:39:12 -0700:

> I am honest... but keep in mind how you have presented yourself: insisting
> that there are NO benefits to iOS. It is a very dishonest and biased
> position for you to take.

Snit,
What I said is very clear since I only speak facts.

You and nospam are the ones who argued for that purely fictional iOS WiFi
signal strength graphical recording device functionality in this thread.

Now you're stammering on about screen recording, as if that's going to be
your holy grail. It isn't.

Current iOS devices can do screen recording.
Current Android devices can do screen recording.

All I am asking you to present is a single app functionality that is on
current devices sans jailbreaking that is on iOS but not on Android.

You either find an app functionality that is on current iOS devices without
jailbreaking that is not on current Android devices without rooting, or you
don't.

Certainly I have already listed *lots* of app functionality that is not
only on current Android devices without rooting that isn't on current iOS
devices without jailbreaking, but I also listed specific app functionality
that is even on my ancient iOS 4.3 device that isn't on current iOS
devices.

But I never listed screen recording in that list of what's on my ancient
device that you can't hope to do with even the latest iOS, so any attempt
by you to include screen recording is simply a non sequitur of your own
fabrication.

It's really no more complicated than that.

> Oh, links to threads. Not interested and did not even click them all.

Classic.
Interpretation: You (and nospam) bought too many arguments this week.

[Snit]

On 10/12/17, 7:47 PM, in article orp9fr$psr$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry newton"

<ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> He who is nospam said on Thu, 12 Oct 2017 22:19:12 -0400:
>
>> note that he forbids jailbreaking an iphone in his comparisons, but has
>> no issues whatsoever with rooting an android phone.
>
> Notice how desperate the nospam iOS apologist is to find something
> (anything) that iOS can do that Android doesn't *already* do!

People find those things based on your trolling claim that such things do
not exist.

...

> To Snit:
> You asked for proof that Apple removes apps that do things it doesn't want
> them to do;

When do you think I did that?

> here's potential proof (depending on why Apple pulled the app).


--

[Snit]

On 10/12/17, 7:55 PM, in article orp9up$q8r$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry newton"

Why did you move the topic to mere screen recording?

Sadly I think it is because you have no clue what was being discussed.

[Snit]

On 10/12/17, 8:20 PM, in article orpbde$rom$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry newton"

<ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> He who is Snit said on Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:39:12 -0700:
>
>> I am honest... but keep in mind how you have presented yourself: insisting
>> that there are NO benefits to iOS. It is a very dishonest and biased
>> position for you to take.
>
> Snit,
> What I said is very clear since I only speak facts.

This is incorrect, as has been pointed out many times. With proof.

...

> Now you're stammering on about screen recording, as if that's going to be
> your holy grail. It isn't.

You moved goal posts even on that topic. As has been beaten to death.

Are you merely trolling or do you really have no idea what has been noted:

On iOS you can record screen AND voice AND device sounds. No jail breaking
required.

On Android you showed you can do those things on a jail broken machine, but
so far you have not shown you can do so on one that has not.

Add to that, I also talked about recording those three things AS you record
the screen, so it is time-coordinated.

And you have not shown that even on a device you have jail broken.

> Current iOS devices can do screen recording.
> Current Android devices can do screen recording.
>
> All I am asking you to present is a single app functionality that is on
> current devices sans jailbreaking that is on iOS but not on Android.

Already noted:

Record screen AND voice AND device sounds without jail breaking. Also record
desktop screen and sound in with the time coordinated.

And these:

* Drag and drop content

* Search contacts, settings, mail, etc. all at once.

* Be secure (97% of mobile malware is for Android)

* Charge with more than 9 watts of power

* Use a reversible charging plug

* Listen to lossless 48 kHz audio on headphones

* Video editor as powerful as iMovie

More discussed here

<https://www.tomsguide.com/us/iphone-is-better-than-android,news-21307.html>
OR <https://goo.gl/CdbvkS>

<http://www.macworld.co.uk/feature/iphone/best-iphone-only-apps-3592208>

<http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/702037/Apple-iPhone-
iOS-Things-Better-vs-Android> OR <https://goo.gl/t4Rh5C>

<https://www.bustle.com/articles/107086-7-awesome-things-iphones-can-do-that
-androids-cant> OR <https://goo.gl/DdfdDX>

> You either find an app functionality that is on current iOS devices without
> jailbreaking that is not on current Android devices without rooting, or you
> don't.

I have. Repeatedly. As have others.
...

[Snit]

On 10/12/17, 8:01 PM, in article orpaa7$ql4$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry newton"

<ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> He who is Snit said on Thu, 12 Oct 2017 19:44:22 -0700:
>
>> The recording comment was brought up in response to your claim that there
>> was NOTHING iOS can do that Android cannot.
>
> C'mon Snit.
> This is a hellova lot simpler than you are trying to make it out to be.

Sure it is simple: you are trolling and getting humiliated.

> Does a current iOS device record the screen? (yes or no)
> Does a current Android device record the screen. (yes or no)

Both do... and nobody said, suggested, hinted, or implied otherwise.
Remember, that is just you moving goal posts as a part of your trolling.

> Either shut up or answer those two questions because you're lapsing into
> the classic iOS apologist "I bought too many arguments this week" tactic.

These things were never even in question. You just made them up as a part of
your trolling.

> Either *find* something that iOS apps can do that Android apps can't, or
> shut up.

Already noted:

Record screen AND voice AND device sounds without jail breaking. Also record
desktop screen and sound in with the time coordinated.

And these:

* Drag and drop content

* Search contacts, settings, mail, etc. all at once.

* Be secure (97% of mobile malware is for Android)

* Charge with more than 9 watts of power

* Use a reversible charging plug

* Listen to lossless 48 kHz audio on headphones

* Video editor as powerful as iMovie

More discussed here

<https://www.tomsguide.com/us/iphone-is-better-than-android,news-21307.html>
OR <https://goo.gl/CdbvkS>

<http://www.macworld.co.uk/feature/iphone/best-iphone-only-apps-3592208>

<http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/702037/Apple-iPhone-
iOS-Things-Better-vs-Android> OR <https://goo.gl/t4Rh5C>

<https://www.bustle.com/articles/107086-7-awesome-things-iphones-can-do-that
-androids-cant> OR <https://goo.gl/DdfdDX>

> It's not gonna be screen recording because I know the answer to those two
> questions but you and nospam don't seem to know the simplest of facts.

It is not going to be mere screen recording, nor did anyone suggest it would
be. That is your twisting of what I said to push your trolling.

[nospam]

In article <D6057724.BA922%use...@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit

<use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> >>> And you can reset it on iOS anytime. You also can remove your iCloud
> >>> account.
> >>
> >> Was it you who posted a list of things you can do on iOS and not Android?
> >> Would be fun to have that list but with a quick search I do not see it.
> >
> > lewis posted a short list and i posted a much longer list.
>
> Do you have a link to it (or a copy / paste of it)?

i combined both and added a bunch more:

wide gamut dci-p3 display, fully colour managed, 3d touch, truetone
display, ecc memory, apple pencil, promotion, airdrop, continuity &
handoff, family sharing, full encryption, differential privacy, scene
and face recognition processed locally (versus uploading to google's
servers and done remotely where it can be data mined), editable
screenshots, secure wifi password sharing, app review blocking,
homekit, healthkit, arkit, coreml, secure extensions, split view,
portrait lighting, post-capture portrait effects, hardware neural
network engine, hardware accelerated heif/hevc, low latency audio,
true-depth camera, reduced shutter lag, fill flash, slow sync, long
exposure, 4k/60fps video, animojis, emojicator, quick setup, bluetooth
pairing sync, sandboxed multi-item non-blocking drag & drop, secure
enclave/element, secure face recognition that can't be spoofed with a
photo, and lastly, 4-5 years of free system updates & security fixes.

ios was also first with a retina display, a 64-bit processor, bluetooth
le and a fingerprint sensor that works well. prior to apple's touchid,
fingerprint sensors were *awful*.

> >> Also turns out Harry can do the things I noted when he ROOTS his Android
> >> phone, but, I believe, not without doing so.
> >
> > note that he forbids jailbreaking an iphone in his comparisons, but has
> > no issues whatsoever with rooting an android phone.
>
> If so that is completely absurd.

yep, as is everything else he spews.

> Even with jail breaking, though, I do not think any Android device lets you
> charge at more than 9 watts, nor allows you to listen to headphone with
> lossless 48 kHz audio.

some android devices support qualcomm's proprietary quick charge.

<https://www.qualcomm.com/products/features/quick-charge>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quick_Charge>

the google pixel 2/2xl supports usb-c power delivery, but only up to 18
watts.

<http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/10/06/pixel-2-2-xl-can-charged-27w-co
mpliant-usb-c-pd-charger/>
Iąd like to clarify this post as Pixel 2 and 2 XL will not be able to
support 27W charging. While the phones may be able to negotiate more
power using USB Power Delivery when connected to a higher wattage
charger, there are other factors which may limit the speed at which
it charges the battery. The included 18W charger in the box will
provide optimal charging for Pixel 2 and 2 XL. Sorry for the
confusion!

the iphone 8/8+/x and ipad pro support usb-c power delivery.

apple's *least* powerful adapter is 29 watts and go as high as 87
watts. however, the higher wattage ones don't reduce the recharge time
very much, so there is an internal limit, no doubt due to safety
concerns. phones that go boom aren't very useful.

also keep in mind that battery run time on an iphone is generally much
longer than android, so the need to recharge quickly is nowhere near as
common. an iphone can last 1-2 *days* on a single charge in normal use.

[nospam]

In article <orp9fr$psr$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, harry newton

<ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> Nospam, as *always* is completely fact challenged since he conveniently
> forgets to state that the public screen recorder API has been on Android
> since version 4.4 (released in 2013) when free screen recording apps were
> already available and a *native* free screen recorder was shipped with
> Android 5.0 (released in 2014).
>
> Meanwhile, a native screen recorder wasn't shipped on iOS until 24 days
> ago.

android needs an app to record the screen.

ios does not.

*that* is the difference.

[harry newton]

He who is Snit said on Thu, 12 Oct 2017 18:55:11 -0700:

> You have shown you can record voice, screen, and computer sounds -- but did
> you need to use a jail broken device?

Yet again iOS apologists prove they can't comprehend the *simplest* of facts!

By now, you should know that the post you're responding to was correct in
that screen recording *public* APIs have been in Android since Android 4.4
(2013) and *native* apps shipped with Android 5.0 (2014) with private APIs
being used dating back to Android 2.23 (2011).

Meanwhile, Apple only provided a native app 24 days ago, and we know in
2016 they yanked an app that purportedly recorded the screen and similar
apps (according to the article) were yanked by Apple prior to that.
<http://www.idownloadblog.com/2016/01/06/a-new-ios-screen-recording-app-sneaks-into-the-app-store/>

Are all you iOS apologists always so utterly & completely immune to facts?

[Snit]

On 10/12/17, 8:30 PM, in article 121020172330493845%nos...@nospam.invalid,

"nospam" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <D6057724.BA922%use...@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit
> <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> And you can reset it on iOS anytime. You also can remove your iCloud
>>>>> account.
>>>>
>>>> Was it you who posted a list of things you can do on iOS and not Android?
>>>> Would be fun to have that list but with a quick search I do not see it.
>>>
>>> lewis posted a short list and i posted a much longer list.
>>
>> Do you have a link to it (or a copy / paste of it)?
>
> i combined both and added a bunch more:

Thank you!

> wide gamut dci-p3 display, fully colour managed, 3d touch, truetone
> display, ecc memory, apple pencil, promotion, airdrop, continuity &
> handoff, family sharing, full encryption, differential privacy, scene
> and face recognition processed locally (versus uploading to google's
> servers and done remotely where it can be data mined), editable
> screenshots, secure wifi password sharing, app review blocking,
> homekit, healthkit, arkit, coreml, secure extensions, split view,
> portrait lighting, post-capture portrait effects, hardware neural
> network engine, hardware accelerated heif/hevc, low latency audio,
> true-depth camera, reduced shutter lag, fill flash, slow sync, long
> exposure, 4k/60fps video, animojis, emojicator, quick setup, bluetooth
> pairing sync, sandboxed multi-item non-blocking drag & drop, secure
> enclave/element, secure face recognition that can't be spoofed with a
> photo, and lastly, 4-5 years of free system updates & security fixes.
>
> ios was also first with a retina display, a 64-bit processor, bluetooth
> le and a fingerprint sensor that works well. prior to apple's touchid,
> fingerprint sensors were *awful*.

Some overlap with my list but they are not the same... suggesting a lot more
we have left out. My list:

Record screen AND voice AND device sounds without jail breaking. Also record
desktop screen and sound in with the time coordinated.

And these:

* Drag and drop content

* Search contacts, settings, mail, etc. all at once.

* Be secure (97% of mobile malware is for Android)

* Use a reversible charging plug

* Listen to lossless 48 kHz audio on headphones

* Video editor as powerful as iMovie

More discussed here

<https://www.tomsguide.com/us/iphone-is-better-than-android,news-21307.html>
OR <https://goo.gl/CdbvkS>

<http://www.macworld.co.uk/feature/iphone/best-iphone-only-apps-3592208>

<http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/702037/Apple-iPhone-
iOS-Things-Better-vs-Android> OR <https://goo.gl/t4Rh5C>

<https://www.bustle.com/articles/107086-7-awesome-things-iphones-can-do-that
-androids-cant> OR <https://goo.gl/DdfdDX>

>>>> Also turns out Harry can do the things I noted when he ROOTS his Android
>>>> phone, but, I believe, not without doing so.
>>>
>>> note that he forbids jailbreaking an iphone in his comparisons, but has
>>> no issues whatsoever with rooting an android phone.
>>
>> If so that is completely absurd.
>
> yep, as is everything else he spews.
>
>> Even with jail breaking, though, I do not think any Android device lets you
>> charge at more than 9 watts, nor allows you to listen to headphone with
>> lossless 48 kHz audio.
>
> some android devices support qualcomm's proprietary quick charge.
>
> <https://www.qualcomm.com/products/features/quick-charge>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quick_Charge>
>
> the google pixel 2/2xl supports usb-c power delivery, but only up to 18
> watts.
>
> <http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/10/06/pixel-2-2-xl-can-charged-27w-co
> mpliant-usb-c-pd-charger/>
> Iąd like to clarify this post as Pixel 2 and 2 XL will not be able to
> support 27W charging. While the phones may be able to negotiate more
> power using USB Power Delivery when connected to a higher wattage
> charger, there are other factors which may limit the speed at which
> it charges the battery. The included 18W charger in the box will
> provide optimal charging for Pixel 2 and 2 XL. Sorry for the
> confusion!

Thanks... removed that item from my list.

> the iphone 8/8+/x and ipad pro support usb-c power delivery.
>
> apple's *least* powerful adapter is 29 watts and go as high as 87
> watts. however, the higher wattage ones don't reduce the recharge time
> very much, so there is an internal limit, no doubt due to safety
> concerns. phones that go boom aren't very useful.
>
> also keep in mind that battery run time on an iphone is generally much
> longer than android, so the need to recharge quickly is nowhere near as
> common. an iphone can last 1-2 *days* on a single charge in normal use.

[Snit]

On 10/12/17, 8:30 PM, in article 121020172330503900%nos...@nospam.invalid,

Also Harry moved goal posts. I was talking about doing three things at once:

* Record the screen
* Record device sounds
* Record voice

Nobody suggested you could not record the screen on Android!

[nospam]

In article <D6058243.BA93B%use...@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit

<use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

>
> * Be secure (97% of mobile malware is for Android)

ios malware is either for jailbroken phones (which remove the security
protection, where anything goes, including malware) or just theoretical
exploits not found in the wild and quickly patched.

> * Use a reversible charging plug

several android phones use usb-c.

[harry newton]

He who is nospam said on Thu, 12 Oct 2017 23:30:49 -0400:

> i combined both and added a bunch more:

In short, all you did was cut and paste a meaningless garble of marketing
blurbs, as always, where even you apparently can't figure out what is in
that list that is of any real import.

Remember, you've already been caught in this very thread making up
fictional iOS capabilities (as you have done in almost *all* your threads),
so, choose wisely.

Here's the test of whether you even *understand* the simplest things about
the garble you just cut and pasted from some marketing site.

Pick one software functionality. You pick it. Not me. You pick just one.

Pick one app software functionality that is in your cut-and-paste list that
you *claim* is only on current nonjailbroken Apple iOS devices that you
also assert is *already* not on current nonrooted Android devices.

C'mon now.
Choose that one carefully because I'm going to check your, ahem, facts.

[Snit]

On 10/12/17, 8:31 PM, in article orpc2n$sa1$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry newton"

<ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> He who is Snit said on Thu, 12 Oct 2017 18:55:11 -0700:
>
>> You have shown you can record voice, screen, and computer sounds -- but did
>> you need to use a jail broken device?
>
> Yet again iOS apologists prove they can't comprehend the *simplest* of facts!

See: more trolling from you.

> By now, you should know that the post you're responding to was correct in
> that screen recording *public* APIs have been in Android since Android 4.4
> (2013) and *native* apps shipped with Android 5.0 (2014) with private APIs
> being used dating back to Android 2.23 (2011).
>
> Meanwhile, Apple only provided a native app 24 days ago, and we know in
> 2016 they yanked an app that purportedly recorded the screen and similar
> apps (according to the article) were yanked by Apple prior to that.
> <http://www.idownloadblog.com/2016/01/06/a-new-ios-screen-recording-app-sneaks
> -into-the-app-store/>
>
> Are all you iOS apologists always so utterly & completely immune to facts?

You moved goal posts AGAIN. The original topic:

Record screen AND voice AND device sounds without jail breaking.
Also record desktop screen and sound in with the time coordinated.

And then these things have also been talked about, only to be ignored by
you:

* Drag and drop content

* Search contacts, settings, mail, etc. all at once.

* Be secure (97% of mobile malware is for Android)

* Use a reversible charging plug

* Listen to lossless 48 kHz audio on headphones

* Video editor as powerful as iMovie

More discussed here

<https://www.tomsguide.com/us/iphone-is-better-than-android,news-21307.html>
OR <https://goo.gl/CdbvkS>

<http://www.macworld.co.uk/feature/iphone/best-iphone-only-apps-3592208>

<http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/702037/Apple-iPhone-
iOS-Things-Better-vs-Android> OR <https://goo.gl/t4Rh5C>

<https://www.bustle.com/articles/107086-7-awesome-things-iphones-can-do-that
-androids-cant> OR <https://goo.gl/DdfdDX>

nopam also posted this:

wide gamut dci-p3 display, fully colour managed, 3d touch, truetone
display, ecc memory, apple pencil, promotion, airdrop, continuity &
handoff, family sharing, full encryption, differential privacy, scene
and face recognition processed locally (versus uploading to google's
servers and done remotely where it can be data mined), editable
screenshots, secure wifi password sharing, app review blocking,
homekit, healthkit, arkit, coreml, secure extensions, split view,
portrait lighting, post-capture portrait effects, hardware neural
network engine, hardware accelerated heif/hevc, low latency audio,
true-depth camera, reduced shutter lag, fill flash, slow sync, long
exposure, 4k/60fps video, animojis, emojicator, quick setup, bluetooth
pairing sync, sandboxed multi-item non-blocking drag & drop, secure
enclave/element, secure face recognition that can't be spoofed with a
photo, and lastly, 4-5 years of free system updates & security fixes.

[Snit]

On 10/12/17, 8:38 PM, in article 121020172338090233%nos...@nospam.invalid,

Removing from my list. Thanks.

[harry newton]

He who is Snit said on Thu, 12 Oct 2017 20:34:11 -0700:

> Record screen AND voice AND device sounds without jail breaking.

You've got to be kidding?
You're *that* fact challenged?
Even after we explained it to you something like five times?

That's your *number* one item to answer the question of app software
functionality that you *claim* is only on current nonjailbroken Apple iOS

devices that you also assert is *already* not on current nonrooted Android
devices.

Don't just cut and paste a list that is not only meaningless to you, but
that is worthless to everyone else because it clearly contains
cut-and-pasted stuff that is wrong right out of the box (which I'm sure
nospam will immediately see too).

Just follow directions will ya?
We know you can cut and paste marketing bullshit.
You've proven that in spades.

Name just your top most important app software functionality that you
assert that current nonjailbroken Apple iOS devices can do that you claim
that current nonrooted Android devices can't do.

[dorayme]

In article <121020171926485371%nos...@nospam.invalid>,
nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <orot03$bfl$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, harry newton
> <ha...@is.invalid> wrote:
>
> > If anyone knows how to *skip* to, say, the 30-minute mark on a two-hour
> > long documenary on an iPod, that would be useful. Of course I can split the
> > file in 10-minute pieces if I wanted to, but I was hoping the iPod could
> > jump forward within a single MP3 file.
> >
> > Can the iPod do that?
>

Maybe *the* iPod can, but mine certainly cannot. I can fast-forward
but you have to listen carefully every now and then to check and this
function can break down needing a restore to re-enliven it. Nothing is
perfect (except nospam, he is a thing of great beauty and rightness,
in a small-casing sort of a way).


> yes

--
dorayme

[dorayme]

In article <D6056431.BA909%use...@gallopinginsanity.com>,
Snit <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> > Some of my kids play football (e.g., the boys) and some of them can't
> > (e.g., the girls). It's not that I like the boys any more or less because
> > they can play football better than the girls. It's just a fact that they
> > do.
>
> Why can't girls play football? That makes no sense.

Of course it makes sense. It is just that it is wrong. Women play
football, there are even national teams and some are very good indeed.

--
dorayme

[nospam]

In article
<do_ray_me-A3BCD...@46.sub-75-242-165.myvzw.com>, dorayme

<do_r...@bigpond.com> wrote:

> Nothing is
> perfect (except nospam, he is a thing of great beauty and rightness,

you got that right.

[nospam]

In article <orpcmu$sss$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, harry newton

<ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

>
> > i combined both and added a bunch more:
>
> In short, all you did was cut and paste a meaningless garble of marketing
> blurbs, as always, where even you apparently can't figure out what is in
> that list that is of any real import.

the only person who can't figure out what they are is *you*, which is
why you snipped the list.

> Remember, you've already been caught in this very thread making up
> fictional iOS capabilities (as you have done in almost *all* your threads),
> so, choose wisely.

nope.

> Here's the test of whether you even *understand* the simplest things about
> the garble you just cut and pasted from some marketing site.
>
> Pick one software functionality. You pick it. Not me. You pick just one.
>
> Pick one app software functionality that is in your cut-and-paste list that
> you *claim* is only on current nonjailbroken Apple iOS devices that you
> also assert is *already* not on current nonrooted Android devices.

you don't get to restrict it to non-jailbroken devices while you use a
rooted phone.

not that it matters, since nothing in that list requires jailbreaking.

it's just proof of how desperate you are.

> C'mon now.
> Choose that one carefully because I'm going to check your, ahem, facts.

all of them.

now go embarrass yourself even further trying to figure out what they
all mean and actually do.

the last time i posted a list, you made a complete fool of yourself.

[harry newton]

He who is Snit said on Thu, 12 Oct 2017 20:29:47 -0700:

> you are trolling and getting humiliated.

Even after a half dozen requests ... both you and nospam haven't *yet*
listed the single most important software app functionality that you both
claim surely must exist in current nonjailbroken Apple iOS platforms that
you also assert does not exist in the existing Android nonrooted platform.

Since neither of has shown any ability to *comprehend* the single most
important software app functionality that you *claim* exists on iOS but not
on Android, "I" am the one "getting humiliated"?

I find that fact kind of humorous.
Don't you?